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Subject: Multiple questions rss

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SLK
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Sellingen
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Hello,

I still have several questions about the game, after having played it a couple times and reading the different threads. I’m sorry if questions are already answered somewhere else, but please refer to those if you want.

1) Committees phase: does ‘swapping’ two players count as one turn or as two turns?
I.e. in a 3-player game with the following: player1 is at Transport A, player2 is at Election B and player 3 is at Union B. Players 2 and 3 have to be moved and you have to move player3 to Election since this position has to be filled. Do you have to move player2 to the Union committee or can you also move him to the Treasury of Executive committee?

2) Plan execution: the Election chairman may not sabotage the execution of a plan but can he make it more expansive than necessary (for his own gain)?
I.e. Election chairman has a goal to ‘empty budget’ so it could be in his interest to spend as much money as possible (and still executing the plans)

3) Upgrading a building: does the upgrade have to overlap the previous building completely, or is it also allowed to let it overlap partially?
I.e. if the factory is already built (horizontally placed on the board) and the biotech factory is just bought: do you remove the factory and place the biotech factory on the same spot (horizontally) or can you also place it over one the two previous building spots (vertically)?

4) Activating a building: do you have to keep activating buildings until all workers are placed or can you end this phase with workers unemployed (for other reasons)?

5) Following Q4: if all workers have to be placed, are you also required to activate a zone for this (if necessary)?
I.e. there’s one blue worker left: to activate this last worker, you have to activate a zone in which the last free building is located. Do you have to activate this zone (paying electricity and community token) and after that place the blue worker on it, or can you just stop and accept there’s one blue worker unemployed?

6) Activating a zone: is it necessary to activate both zones a building is in, or is activating one zone sufficient (as with the grey zone)?
I.e. a building is in green zone one and two and green zone one is already activated; do you also have to activate green zone two?

7) Activating ‘empty’ zones: are you allowed to activate a zone without that this is necessary for the activation of buildings?
I.e. player1 has a favor card with gaining victory points for activation of blue zones, but there aren’t any buildings in these zones or they are already activated (power plant or grey area): can the player activate blue zones one and two just for personal gain?
*However this would this very thematically in my opinion (ruining the city for own success), I don’t think that this is the purpose of the game.

8) Unemployment report: are the penalties (3 workers unemployed) maximized or could the penalty be worse?
I.e. what is the penalty if six blue workers are unemployed, still 2 crime or more?
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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slklein wrote:
Hello,

I still have several questions about the game, after having played it a couple times and reading the different threads. I’m sorry if questions are already answered somewhere else, but please refer to those if you want.

1) Committees phase: does ‘swapping’ two players count as one turn or as two turns?
I.e. in a 3-player game with the following: player1 is at Transport A, player2 is at Election B and player 3 is at Union B. Players 2 and 3 have to be moved and you have to move player3 to Election since this position has to be filled. Do you have to move player2 to the Union committee or can you also move him to the Treasury of Executive committee?


Answered in this thread:
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13844111

slklein wrote:

2) Plan execution: the Election chairman may not sabotage the execution of a plan but can he make it more expansive than necessary (for his own gain)?
I.e. Election chairman has a goal to ‘empty budget’ so it could be in his interest to spend as much money as possible (and still executing the plans)


You are right.

slklein wrote:

3) Upgrading a building: does the upgrade have to overlap the previous building completely, or is it also allowed to let it overlap partially?
I.e. if the factory is already built (horizontally placed on the board) and the biotech factory is just bought: do you remove the factory and place the biotech factory on the same spot (horizontally) or can you also place it over one the two previous building spots (vertically)?


You must completely overlap the existing building. You may propose a relocate plan to "change" positioning of the newly built bio-tech factory.

slklein wrote:

4) Activating a building: do you have to keep activating buildings until all workers are placed or can you end this phase with workers unemployed (for other reasons)?


You cannot leave workers unemployed if you have a vacant job for them (a building with all required demand to activate it). You can try to manipulate the workforce but you cannot sabotage it.

slklein wrote:

5) Following Q4: if all workers have to be placed, are you also required to activate a zone for this (if necessary)?
I.e. there’s one blue worker left: to activate this last worker, you have to activate a zone in which the last free building is located. Do you have to activate this zone (paying electricity and community token) and after that place the blue worker on it, or can you just stop and accept there’s one blue worker unemployed?


There are nasty ways to cause unemployment. for example you can activate an empty zone to deplete the power supply or the community services so no one can activate the target zone.

slklein wrote:

6) Activating a zone: is it necessary to activate both zones a building is in, or is activating one zone sufficient (as with the grey zone)?
I.e. a building is in green zone one and two and green zone one is already activated; do you also have to activate green zone two?


No. The rules covers this case on page 10:
" Activating a building
Only building tiles that are built on or overlap with an
activated zone
(either the Starting Zone or a zone that
was previously activated in this turn) can be activated."

slklein wrote:

7) Activating ‘empty’ zones: are you allowed to activate a zone without that this is necessary for the activation of buildings?
I.e. player1 has a favor card with gaining victory points for activation of blue zones, but there aren’t any buildings in these zones or they are already activated (power plant or grey area): can the player activate blue zones one and two just for personal gain?
*However this would this very thematically in my opinion (ruining the city for own success), I don’t think that this is the purpose of the game.


Yes. It is thematic, a "good" politician sometimes make "bad" decisions.

slklein wrote:

8) Unemployment report: are the penalties (3 workers unemployed) maximized or could the penalty be worse?
I.e. what is the penalty if six blue workers are unemployed, still 2 crime or more?


Yes. The unemployment and the Lifestyle indicators tracks have a max effects on both ends.


Thanks for asking these questions. We are gathering good amount of FAQ and we will post an official FAQ on BGG shortly.

Elad
 
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SLK
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Sellingen
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Thanks for answering all the questions!
 
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Ben Rankin
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Elad,

I have read the rules and responses from you and others and I understand that you are putting together an FAQ. I still have a few questions.

Election Chairman and the order of building
eg1105 wrote:

slklein wrote:

2) Plan execution: the Election chairman may not sabotage the execution of a plan but can he make it more expansive than necessary (for his own gain)?
I.e. Election chairman has a goal to ‘empty budget’ so it could be in his interest to spend as much money as possible (and still executing the plans)


You are right.


You indicated in another post that the Election Chairman (EC) must first implement the plan element that received the most votes. As others have indicated, this is not in the rules so presumably this will be in the FAQ. Should all plans be executed in vote order (with ties broken by the EC) or after the first plan is implemented does the EC have free choice?

I think that this vote order issue is important because I can envision plans that include selling or relocating buildings having an impact on maximizing the ability to have all of the passed plans implemented. Also, after building one of three buildings, if there is only enough budget to build one more building then either the EC has a choice or the vote order takes precedence.

The rules say that the EC must not
Quote:
"sabotage" plans by intentionally increasing building costs
I am not clear what does and does not count as sabotage.

1. Constructing a building in a non-matching zone to increase cost - Sabotage
2. Constructing a building (paying the full cost) when an upgrade option is available - ?

Is the intention of the rules for the EC to maximize the amount of the plans that can be completed? i.e., If another player can demonstrate a way that would allow more of the plans to be implemented then the EC must choose to do so?

The rules as written
Quote:
must strive to execute all approved plans
would tend to support this interpretation.

Or is it your intention that the rules prohibit some clearly defined 'sabotage' actions which may not be performed if they result in some of the plans being not built.


Activation Sub-Phase
eg1105 wrote:

slklein wrote:

4) Activating a building: do you have to keep activating buildings until all workers are placed or can you end this phase with workers unemployed (for other reasons)?


You can live workers unemployed if you have a vacant job for them (a building with all required demand to activate it). You can try to manipulate the workforce but you cannot sabotage it.


I am confused by the response you gave here. I think you are saying that workers may be unemployed if the requirements of activating a building can't be met, but you can't voluntarily leave workers unemployed if there is a valid building activation.

I've read other questions on this topic and I believe that the following is a correct summary of choices during the Activation Sub-Phase.

1. A player may activate a zone either occupied or empty if power and community are available.
2. A player may activate a building if the required inputs are available.

Players must choose one of these actions until there are no further building activations that can be taken with the available resources. The players need not waste power and community activating empty zones, but may choose to do so as long as at least one building is still a potential target of activation.


Another question about activation
The rules indicate that 'One Specialized worker can enable performing two actions on the same tile'.
The Airport and the Courthouse are the only tiles that have a specialized worker and two action boxes. Are these the only tiles that can be activated twice?


A question about scoring Favor cards
The rules indicate that the General Favor cards can be scored whenever the condition is met (and not in the first turn).
In another post it was indicated (not sure if it was you) that the entire Action resolution phase should be completed before scoring General Favor cards, and that a player shouldn't score in the middle of this phase.
In looking at the General Favor card examples in the rule book, I am wondering if you could indicate when you normally see players score those General Favor cards?
1. Mob Hangouts - I could see scoring this at the end of the Activation sub-phase or after the unemployment report but before the Action resolution phase.
2. Correctional Activity - At the end of the Activation sub-phase but before the unemployment report
3. Increase Goods Reserve - It says it has to be done at the end of the turn.
4. White Collar Unemployment - At the end of the Activation sub-phase
5. Pollution Prevention - at the end of the Plan Execution Phase but before the Production Phase
6. Improve Residential Facilities - At the end of the Activation sub-phase.

Are my interpretations correct? Clearly there are multiple timing issues and some cards (Increase Goods Reserve) specify when they can be scored. It appears that they can be scored anytime it makes sense to do so as long as it is not in the middle of the Action Resolution Phase.
 
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AT-Colt
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benrankin wrote:

The rules say that the EC must not
Quote:
"sabotage" plans by intentionally increasing building costs
I am not clear what does and does not count as sabotage.

1. Constructing a building in a non-matching zone to increase cost - Sabotage
2. Constructing a building (paying the full cost) when an upgrade option is available - ?

Is the intention of the rules for the EC to maximize the amount of the plans that can be completed? i.e., If another player can demonstrate a way that would allow more of the plans to be implemented then the EC must choose to do so?

The rules as written
Quote:
must strive to execute all approved plans
would tend to support this interpretation.

Or is it your intention that the rules prohibit some clearly defined 'sabotage' actions which may not be performed if they result in some of the plans being not built.


The way I understand it, the rules mean the following: If there is a(ny) way to execute all plans, you have to chose one of those ways. You may - as the Election chairman - chose a way that has minimal or maximal cost as you see fit. You may not however push the costs so high that you cannot execute all plans.

For example say that the city budget is at 6 and the three plans that were agreed upon are a building of cost 3, of cost 2 and of cost 1. Lets further say that there is enough free space in all zones that you can build them were you want.
Now you have to put them into their appropriate zones (or the starting zone) since the budget just fits the cost. You may not voluntarily place one or more squares in a false zone. (This would be the sabotage.)
If the city budget was 7, you could have chosen the layout as before but in addition you could place one square of one of the buildings in a false zone. You decide.

Still, I am unclear to what happens if you cannot execute all plans but can chose for subsets of plans to be executed. A clarification on which one would take precedence would be very welcome.
For example: same as above, but the city budget is 3 to 5.

Quote:
Another question about activation
The rules indicate that 'One Specialized worker can enable performing two actions on the same tile'.
The Airport and the Courthouse are the only tiles that have a specialized worker and two action boxes. Are these the only tiles that can be activated twice?


They can't be activated twice. You activate one of those buildings and then chose which box to fulfill, with the option to fulfill both boxes.

Interesting question that came to my mind right now: Say the Airport is the last building that can be and has to be activated and there are enough workers to use both boxes. Can you chose not to activate both boxes? I'd say yes, but I am not sure.

Cheers,

AT-Colt
 
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Vandal Bandito
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Colt wrote:

For example say that the city budget is at 6 and the three plans that were agreed upon are a building of cost 3, of cost 2 and of cost 1. Lets further say that there is enough free space in all zones that you can build them were you want.
Now you have to put them into their appropriate zones (or the starting zone) since the budget just fits the cost. You may not voluntarily place one or more squares in a false zone. (This would be the sabotage.)
If the city budget was 7, you could have chosen the layout as before but in addition you could place one square of one of the buildings in a false zone. You decide.

Still, I am unclear to what happens if you cannot execute all plans but can chose for subsets of plans to be executed. A clarification on which one would take precedence would be very welcome.
For example: same as above, but the city budget is 3 to 5.

The game lacks good examples in the manual.
What if we got the situation with 5$ Budget, and buildings
A. got 2 votes, costs 3,
B. got 2 votes, cost 2, got 1 money token
C. got 1 vote, cost 2
How EC must choose & can choose, and how can he sabotage it by smart placing in zones?
Reading through the manual again I'm afraid that we won't know until a FAQ is published.
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Elad Goldsteen
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Vandal_Bandito wrote:
Colt wrote:

For example say that the city budget is at 6 and the three plans that were agreed upon are a building of cost 3, of cost 2 and of cost 1. Lets further say that there is enough free space in all zones that you can build them were you want.
Now you have to put them into their appropriate zones (or the starting zone) since the budget just fits the cost. You may not voluntarily place one or more squares in a false zone. (This would be the sabotage.)
If the city budget was 7, you could have chosen the layout as before but in addition you could place one square of one of the buildings in a false zone. You decide.

Still, I am unclear to what happens if you cannot execute all plans but can chose for subsets of plans to be executed. A clarification on which one would take precedence would be very welcome.
For example: same as above, but the city budget is 3 to 5.

The game lacks good examples in the manual.
What if we got the situation with 5$ Budget, and buildings
A. got 2 votes, costs 3,
B. got 2 votes, cost 2, got 1 money token
C. got 1 vote, cost 2
How EC must choose & can choose, and how can he sabotage it by smart placing in zones?
Reading through the manual again I'm afraid that we won't know until a FAQ is published.


Your example missing important details (maybe some of these buildings are up gradable).

About the rules, they are pretty straight forward and simple:

"Plan Execution
The Election Committee chairman is responsible for executing
the plans. He decides on the execution order. He
must strive to execute all approved plans (cannot “sabotage”
plans by intentionally increasing building costs).
In spite of this, it is still possible that some plans cannot
be executed because there is not enough budget."

The EC will choose which plans would be executed (based on his own agenda or by negotiating terms with other players).
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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Colt wrote:

Interesting question that came to my mind right now: Say the Airport is the last building that can be and has to be activated and there are enough workers to use both boxes. Can you chose not to activate both boxes? I'd say yes, but I am not sure.

Cheers,

AT-Colt


You must send all workers to work (if possible). You cannot "cause" unemployment.
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Vandal Bandito
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eg1105 wrote:

The EC will choose which plans would be executed (based on his own agenda or by negotiating terms with other players).

Was afraid it's like that - we played it like that and it didn't work too well. The voting means little since EC in the end will do that which suits him (1 vote or 3 votes on a building, no difference for him), making him a dictator. Because of that I also see the power of having 2 black figures useless comparing to EC, or even having more scoring cards.

Plus in a 4 player game w had 2 players exchange the EC all the time, with no ability to take it away from them.
 
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SLK
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eg1105 wrote:
Colt wrote:

Interesting question that came to my mind right now: Say the Airport is the last building that can be and has to be activated and there are enough workers to use both boxes. Can you chose not to activate both boxes? I'd say yes, but I am not sure.

Cheers,

AT-Colt


You must send all workers to work (if possible). You cannot "cause" unemployment.


Hello Elad,

I'm confused: you stated earlier "You can live workers unemployed if you have a vacant job for them (...)". Was that a 'typo' (and should it have been can't instead of can) or is there another explanation?

Secondly I'm still wondering if a zone must or may be activated if there's is a building (which can be activated) in it. In other words: do you have to do anything possible to prevent unemployment or can you leave workers behind since it's an indirect result?
 
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Elad Goldsteen
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Two typos in a raw shake

I edited it and fixed the post ninja.

Sorry for that and thanks for noticing.

 
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Daniel West
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eg1105 wrote:
Two typos in a raw shake
I hope that was intentional.
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