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Rune Age: Oath and Anvil» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Overloard Scenario ... Against the elves rss

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Eric Pietrocupo
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I convinced 3 people to play rune age and they decided to play the overlord scenario where I was the overlord.

Player A never played deck building games, but still played a lot of board games including LCG. He took the undead.

Player B never played rune age but played deck building games. She took the Dwarves.

Player C already played rune age once. he played the orcs.

Now since There was many new people to the game, we decided that the most experience player should play the overlord and to give myself an extra difficulty I decided to play the elves.

I insisted in using the variant below because every body say that the elves are under powered.

 


In fact, I played it weaker than that, I used it as use ability A or ability B.

I also made an error once by discarding a part of my hand to draw cards instead of my whole hand.

----------------------

Results

The elves wiped out all opposition with only 4 damage on their strong hold. Players were eliminated in the following orders C-B-A, the first first players required 2 attacks, the first player required 1 t the attack.

... What the hell did just happen!

Was not the elves supposed to be the weakest races?

Is the variant change broke the game?

Does the overlord card patches all the flaws of the elves?

Is it better to place the least experience player as the overlord?

-----------------

Most player said that the fact that I was more experienced with the elves made me win. They also find the variant above too abusive as they think that elves should be weaker at start and escalate in strength later.

I agree that I have been lucky by ending up with 3+3+1+1 gold + 3 from treasure hoard which allowed me to build a pegasus rider and a forest guardian on the same turn.

They also tried to attack some of my strong hold and cities in the first half of the game and they never succeed. Most of the time, I won because I could use my warrior to destroy opposing shadow dragons and digging machines without any trouble.

As for the variant above, I think it would be better if the new ability replaced the previous one, preventing the elven player to untap his cities. Which makes it much more strategic because if a player waste his cities to acquire cards, he won't be able to use them in battle unless he manages to put a forest guardian into play. So the player would need to chose between buying cards or battle.

Anybody had any ideas on what has just happened?

I don't have the exact composition of my deck, I think I had all my pegasus riders, all my forest guardian, 1 shadow dragon (last turn), 2 warrior, gold 3+3+1+1, 2 shadow runes, and a couple of archers and maybe a sorceress. I had around 17-18 cards. Which is a bit fat for an elven deck, I normally try to stay under 15 cards.

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Robert Taylor-Smith
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The variant is too powerful.

I don't agree the elves are underpowered in general. The elves are a weak faction in some scenarios and strong in others. A lot depends on what mercenary cards are available. The elves play somewhat differently than the other factions: They really need to ruthlessly and quickly thin their deck and focus on powerful cards not mass of cheap spear catchers.
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Frank Franco
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I'm in the "elves are fine as is" camp.
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Jan
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a side note of mine ehm, It just happened that two novices and I (played 5x max) have played RA+exp. during the last 3,5 days in a row, dozens of plays each day, played each one of six scenarios multiple times using different factions mixes.. and I must say that Elves, as they are in original, have shown some crushing playstyles, especially in the hands of ex-MTG player.. yes it depends on the scenario, but still, they felt almost overpowered
(right now I'm pretty overuneaged)
 
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Guido Gloor
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I haven't acutally played the Overlord scenario yet, but from what I've gathered, I wouldn't play that one with new players...
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Garrett
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haslo wrote:
I haven't acutally played the Overlord scenario yet, but from what I've gathered, I wouldn't play that one with new players...


I agree. I've played it once. I was the only veteran player, but two others were experienced and one was new. I was on the allied side along with the new player and one experienced player. The experienced player and I basically ended up playing the newbie's hand for him and we defeated the overlord. The overlord was not happy about that.

But then we went back and read one of the overlord cards again and discovered we played it wrong and the overlord should have won very early on.

I'm looking forward to playing this scenario again, but you really need each player to be self-sufficient.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
I think the Elves are particularly powerful as the Overlord. In general, the Overlord should win anyway no matter the faction, unless he's not an average player. The tweak was conceived for the original Cataclysm and Runewars.


I like the idea of tapping influence to get +1 str rather than untap cities. It makes the management of influence less complex, gives an opening to opponents when all your influence is tapped and prevent the "buy a card with influence, untap with archer, and buy another card with influence.

As for the overlord being too powerful, maybe the newbie should take the place of the overlord.

It's interesting to see how play experience matters in this game.
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Alejandro F
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It is an old thread but i will chime in. It's no surprise.

The elves are the weakest of factions... in general. It depends greatly of the scenario. In the overlord scenario, the elves are one of the most powerful factions as the overlord. Why? Because of the card that gives a boost of gold or influence as desired. With that help, the forest guardians are and easy pick in early turns, and pegasus almost a freebie.

Usually I give the overlord to the least experienced player as it is hard to defeat the Overlord.
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Tomas Hejna
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Whoa - I totally missed this thread and I have to agree. The elves can have the most powerful end-game - and as an Overlord, they are there almost just from the beginning (only after several events). On the other hand, even the modified DA are not the cause of it. It is all about the elven high level units and the time they enter player's deck.

Btw, regarding this scenario - for several times I already thought whether the option to replace the whole hand on each allied player's turn is really that necessary (I understand that primarily it is a way how to get rid of the unwanted gold cards on hand). I'm inclined to say that this could seem to be one of the apparently lesser "bonuses" that can swing the play hugely at several moments in the end. Maybe it would be better idea to not to allow it for the Overlord and/or to allow it for the allied players too.
 
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Alejandro F
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The whole discard thing I believe is for the next scenario:
Allied 1 Attacks the overlord. He does not defend himself. Bad hand. Shit Happens.

Then, allied player 2 Attacks The overlord with all he has. Same hand. The overlord can't defend.

Finally, the third allied player attacks the overlord again. Yep, same hand there.

One turn of this, and the overlord could never get back of it.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Thanks for the feed back. It's just an hasard that I decided to play the elves and the overlord. If I knew that the overlord would be perfect for non-experienced players, I would have not played it.
 
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Tomas Hejna
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Fisico wrote:
The whole discard thing I believe is for the next scenario:
Allied 1 Attacks the overlord. He does not defend himself. Bad hand. Shit Happens.

Then, allied player 2 Attacks The overlord with all he has. Same hand. The overlord can't defend.

Finally, the third allied player attacks the overlord again. Yep, same hand there.

One turn of this, and the overlord could never get back of it.

The key card for Overlord is the Treasure Hoard, which can be gained at most at the end of the 4th round (Event phase). I seriously doubt that allied players would be able to destroy him so quickly (I could do some tests on it when I will have some spare time). From that moment on, he should be in much better position & he could manage his deck/hand more reasonable, planing in advance for defense. Thus I would mark such 'bad hand' as a 'poor play' rather than a 'bad luck'.

Maybe it would be a good idea to state the current ruling as:
Overlord = least experienced/capable player

And then slightly alter the ruling in favor of Allied players for a 'reversed' (& more intuitive) variant:
Overlord = most experienced/capable player
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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There was a variant suggestion to delay event cards occurrence by 1 player each turn (single player being 2 turns). Not sure if that could be possible with the overlord scenario. It would slow down the power up the overlord receives. But the timing would be odd has he does not get a new card on his turn.
 
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Garrett
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In response to Elves and the Overlord scenario, I just played a game where the dwarves, orcs, and elves teamed up against Waiqar the Undying. The overlord's first card was the treasure horde. It was tough going from then on. We had only done 1 damage by time the orcs were defeated. Then a lucky Dwarf hand of mine dealt 9 damage (because he couldn't get past my Guardian). Then he took me out. Now the game was far enough along that the Elves had become quite powerful. The Elven player used Leonx Riders to thin the overlord's hand followed by Darnati Warriors to destroy what units he had left to overpower overlord by 10 strength, winning us the game.

So I would agree that the Elves are in a good position. I feel that the Oath and Anvil units really helped them out. I also agree that if the Elves are the overlord, they can get to that "late game" state faster and could be quite problematic to deal with.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
So I would agree that the Elves are in a good position.


From all the comments I have gathered, it seem that elves are slow to start and need a lot of building up with a thin deck to win. This is why they are so complicated to manage.

I liked the idea of replacing the archer ability for "tap at least 1 influence for 1 extra damage". It would make them par with the other races at the start of the game (which can do 2 dmg with 1 unit). And it also makes it more convenient to manage influence since city cards does not get untapped during the game. So you tap influence for buying stuff or for war.

Elves that spent all their influence would be easier to attack. It's a bit like the undead with no cards in the discard pile. I would create a nice counter balance mechanism. But I think that would be the only fix they would need.

 
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Garrett
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larienna wrote:
Quote:
So I would agree that the Elves are in a good position.


From all the comments I have gathered, it seem that elves are slow to start and need a lot of building up with a thin deck to win. This is why they are so complicated to manage.

I liked the idea of replacing the archer ability for "tap at least 1 influence for 1 extra damage". It would make them par with the other races at the start of the game (which can do 2 dmg with 1 unit). And it also makes it more convenient to manage influence since city cards does not get untapped during the game. So you tap influence for buying stuff or for war.

Elves that spent all their influence would be easier to attack. It's a bit like the undead with no cards in the discard pile. I would create a nice counter balance mechanism. But I think that would be the only fix they would need.



I'll have to give it a try. And unlike many other fan-fixes, this one is simple enough to implement that I think I may actually try it.

Question on this ability, though. What if the Forest Guardian is in play? Does the Deepwood Archer become 2-strength for free? I think it should.

With a Forest Guardian present, could a Deepwood Archer ready a city and then get the +2 bonus for free? I think it should not because we're saying you can do one of two things: spend influence to get +1 strength, or ready an exhausted city. Even if you don't have to exhaust the city to get the +1 strength (because your Forest Guardian makes that cost 0), you still have to choose between the two abilities.

Do you see it the same way?
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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You can only get a maximum of +1 for tapping a city of 1 or more influence. And you can use it once. So an archer can at most be strength 2.

The ability replace the original, so you cannot ready cities with archers anymore.

Forest guardian would make the ability free like it is the case for the other cards that cost 1 influence.

 
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