Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Nimble TIEs? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Spaz Attack
msg tools
I was playing around with a list builder and noticed that you could do the following with 100 pts:

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Push the Limit 3
Engine Upgrade 4

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Push the Limit 3
Engine Upgrade 4

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Push the Limit 3
Engine Upgrade 4

Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14
Push the Limit 3
Engine Upgrade 4

"Dark Curse" — TIE Fighter 16

That gives you four TIEs that are just as dodgy as an interceptor with PTL, plus Dark Curse (who is hard to kill anyway) - and you still get to have five ships on the table. Now, there's no Howlrunner to amp up the firepower, but this seems like a squadron that could do a good job of simultaneously staying out of firing arcs while also keeping at least a few guns on opportunity targets.

Has anyone run this list, or something like it? I think it might even hold up well against dual Falcons, given that 4/5ths of the squad can focus + evade on a single turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Ptak
United States
Livermore
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why use fighters over interceptors which have boost for free? Saving on points somehow?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DB Draft
New Zealand
flag msg tools
It sounds like it could work but you end up with at least a couple of stressed TIEs every round and the TIE Fighter doesn't have the best selection of green maneuvers (4 vs 7 on the TIE Interceptor). There is a reason they designed the TIE Interceptor and I think it does the same thing better. But I have to commend the list for sticking to a strong theme.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jesse L
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Norsehound wrote:
Why use fighters over interceptors which have boost for free? Saving on points somehow?


Exactly, and sacrifice an attack die? and have a worse maneuver dial? I don't see the appeal.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spaz Attack
msg tools
The point savings/number of ships that can be fielded was what popped out to me. The cheapest possible interceptors (Alpha Squadron and Avenger Squadron) are 18 and 20 pts, respectively - and that's without PTL (which they can't even take). You have to go all the way up to Saber Squadron (21 pts) to get the option to take an elite talent, so giving them PTL would put them at 24 apiece; so you could field 4 Saber Squaddies with PTL with 4 points left over to give one of them an additional upgrade.

Granted, such an interceptor squad would have slightly more dice (12 overall and 3 singly versus 10 overall and 2 singly), but no individual ship is any more durable - same 3 evade, 3 hull as any other TIE. I figured this kind of set-up would make for a "deeper" list that could better survive any early run of bad dice luck.

But you do make a good point about potentially weak offense, here. I just really like the idea of being able to field a large number of ships that are constantly slipping out of firing arcs. Seems like it would cause a lot of opponents to panic.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert M.
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
djas83 wrote:
But you do make a good point about potentially weak offense, here. I just really like the idea of being able to field a large number of ships that are constantly slipping out of firing arcs. Seems like it would cause a lot of opponents to panic.

Here's the problem: turning up your defense and maneuvering are great, but if they're not paired with some kind of offensive threat, they just make you lose more slowly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spaz Attack
msg tools
In principle I agree, but I'm not sure I'm sacrificing TOO much offensive punch here; these guys can throw ten dice a turn; that's more than Luke, Wedge, and Biggs together.

I think I'm gonna run a few games with this and see how it goes - hopefully some other folks might try it out too and see what happens. I don't have a lot of great players to square off against, so my own results might not be that legit.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Pethybridge
Australia
flag msg tools
A alternative could be to run 6 academy pilots with engine up grades.
You would still have 4 points left over so 1 could be swapped out for Howlrunner or upgrade 2 to Interceptors.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Firstname Lastname
Singapore
flag msg tools
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1059193/build-my-rate

If you want Nimble TIEs, try out interceptors on PTL with Yorr. How nimble is it? Well, you could do a U-turn, then a barrel AND a boost, and you can do it again the next turn because no stress. U-turn 3 + side boost + roll forward = you pretty much rotated on the spot


back to your list, it wouldn't work too well against a falcon with gunner. the first hit will remove your tokens, and the 2nd hit will remove your ship from the table. Lack of offense is also a problem, and your low PS means that you usually cannot roll out of the firing arcs of opponents with a higher PS than you. Also, the limited greens on a TIE is very irritating when it comes to trying to shed off the stress token.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert M.
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
djas83 wrote:
In principle I agree, but I'm not sure I'm sacrificing TOO much offensive punch here; these guys can throw ten dice a turn; that's more than Luke, Wedge, and Biggs together.

Unfortunately, number of attack dice doesn't tell the whole story. Ten ships at 1 Attack are a lot less effective than one ship with 10 Attack, for instance--and unfortunately five TIE fighters are more like the former than the latter.

I'd encourage you to try it and let us know how it goes; maybe I'll be surprised.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mario Nuñez Jimenez
Spain
Madrid
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You have less attack dice and also a worst maneuver dial not allowing you to get rid of stress tokens with the ease an interceptor does.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This ends up looking like an A-wing list except without the shields. 5x 2-attack ships just don't cut it, PtL or not, which is why 4-5 A-wing lists are horrible in competition (aside from outliers). And while Boost is OK to have, PtL on a ship without a second offensive action isn't going to do a lot in a skirmish. You'd be a lot better off with Howlrunner for your action stacking (e.g. free pseudo-target lock to go along with Focus or Barrel Roll).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spaz Attack
msg tools
Got a chance to do a quick test last night with this build, and I'm starting to see some flaws. We ran it up against this:

Outer Rim Smuggler + Chewie
Luke + Artoo + Push the Limit
Ibitsam + FCS + Ion Cannon(?)

We picked out that list specifically because it was built to negate the advantages/enhance the disadvantages of the "Nimble TIES" - ORS ensures that the TIEs can't easily escape firing arcs, two of the ships have lots of shields/hull, and Luke can regenerate shields, making it tough to get damage to really stick.

What became apparent in the first few rounds was that, with their relatively low pilot skills, it was very difficult for the BSPs to make full use of their ability to boost + barrel roll. As a result, they couldn't set up as many nice shots as I had assumed. They did manage to stay very dodgy, and by focusing on the B-Wing, they were able to take it down pretty fast while only losing one TIE in return. The relative lack of green maneuvers made it too tempting to divide forces (it was "easy" to split off stressed TIEs if it gave them a chance to shoot at the ORS, but that meant that Luke wasn't under enough pressure). In the end, It came down to Luke and 4 heavily damaged TIEs (one of them being Dark Curse). They had just stripped the shields when Luke pushed a target lock + focus to smoke one of the remaining BSPs, and given the heavy damage on the remaining ships, we decided to call it in the Rebel favor.

I might try it against a few other lists, but that low pilot skill problem is going to keep coming up and preventing the TIEs from taking full advantage of what I had intended to be their main ability. It was fun to fly, but after all of that, it's not as competitive as I hoped.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Firstname Lastname
Singapore
flag msg tools
your problem isnt so much your low PS, but rather your low damage output. You can shred a Bwing relatively easy since it only has 1 agility, but against Luke + R2D2 you will notice that a lot of attacks are wasted on dealing 0 damage to him, and he can regen whatever little damage that actually gets through. Even worse if he has shield upgrade installed.

yes, your argument that you are rolling 10 attack dice is somewhat correct, but your opponent Luke is rolling 10 defense dice plus his ability as well, plus R2D2's regen.

I think if you were to try and go up against, say Dark Curse + stealth, your 10 attack dice is now up against 20 agility dices. Or for rebel side, against Biggs + R2F2 you are now rolling 10 against 15, assuming range 2 clear shots
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spaz Attack
msg tools
Well, from the session that I played, damage output did not seem as big a factor as pilot skill, given that the imps were able to get both the ORS and the B-Wing down before losing more than 1 ship. The TIEs got beat up a bit, of course, but there were enough of them that the overlapping fire worked well. Granted, those are both 1 agi targets, but they also pack a lot of shields and hull, too.

I hear what everyone's saying about the damage output being lower, and I partially agree, but I think it's being overstated a bit - at least, based upon what I saw in the matchup that I ran. Subsequent games might convince me otherwise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert M.
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
djas83 wrote:
Well, from the session that I played, damage output did not seem as big a factor as pilot skill, given that the imps were able to get both the ORS and the B-Wing down before losing more than 1 ship. The TIEs got beat up a bit, of course, but there were enough of them that the overlapping fire worked well. Granted, those are both 1 agi targets, but they also pack a lot of shields and hull, too.

I hear what everyone's saying about the damage output being lower, and I partially agree, but I think it's being overstated a bit - at least, based upon what I saw in the matchup that I ran. Subsequent games might convince me otherwise.

Try it against one of these:

* Luke Skywalker (28) + Draw Their Fire (1) + R2-D2 (4) + Shield Upgrade (4)
* Rookie Pilot (21)
* Rookie Pilot (21)
* Rookie Pilot (21)

OR

* Omicron Group Pilot (21) + Gunner (5) + Rebel Captive (3) + Advanced Sensors (3) + Shield Upgrade (4)
* Alpha Squadron Pilot (18) + Stealth Device (3)
* Alpha Squadron Pilot (18) + Stealth Device (3)
* Alpha Squadron Pilot (18) + Stealth Device (3)

OR

* Bounty Hunter (33) + Recon Specialist (3) + Shield Upgrade (4)
* Bounty Hunter (33) + Recon Specialist (3) + Shield Upgrade (4)
* Howlrunner (18) + Squad Leader (2)

I'm not making a particular claim for any of these as particularly competitive (the Interceptor list in particular will struggle against Falcons), but they all share the common trait of being fairly durable. They also ought to demonstrate that even gaining a pilot-skill advantage over all or most of your opponents is a fairly limited advantage if you can't capitalize on it early.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spaz Attack
msg tools
Yeah, I was just thinking that I should try it against other matchups (though I actually think it will fare well against the X-Wings).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.