Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

World in Flames» Forums » Rules

Subject: Abusing Vichy rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Hi!

I'm running Germany with an inactive Vichified France. Petain is storing all it's production in metropolitan Vichy France cities instead of spending it in ships. Presumably, all this BPs will become German when (if) Vichy collapses. Moreover, I have retired two Vichy pilots and recycled them as BPs. Is all this legal? I cannot find rules prohibiting it, so... whistle
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's legal and it's standard German play when using the Vichy rules in the rules.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Jurin
United States
Great Neck
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Roberkhan wrote:
Hi!

I'm running Germany with an inactive Vichified France. Petain is storing all it's production in metropolitan Vichy France cities instead of spending it in ships. Presumably, all this BPs will become German when (if) Vichy collapses. Moreover, I have retired two Vichy pilots and recycled them as BPs. Is all this legal? I cannot find rules prohibiting it, so... whistle



I think so, it is pretty commonly done!

Seriously, think of it as a trade-off. It is often better for Germany to use Vichy as a BP factory; or they can try to build up Vichy. Generally Vichy units are hard to use unless Vichy is hostile. So you can build up Vichy as a Southern France defender or use it as a BP factory. Of course, if Vichy starts hostile (because the Allies destroyed units) then the equation changes and using Vichy directly is more useful.

The LOC Vichy rules change things quite a bit so if you use them, again there are different considerations. I don't play with it, with the regualr rules we do indeed usually use Vichy as a BP pump.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Excellent then! I will propose LOC Vichy rules for our next game since the predictability of the current rules makes Vichy a bit boring to use.
And, of course, the Ultimate Rule for Spain is still to be written. The more I read about the issue, the more I want to create it.
Anyway, all those French trucks and plane engines will be welcomed by my suffering footsloggers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Oh, this goes on and on...

As our intentions are quite obvious now, I will risk asking in public. I know MI6 is reading this ninja, but, hell, I need to know!

In the unlikely, mostly unimaginable, case that Adolf were about to collapse his evertrusted and well-loved real Free French neigbours (Vichy puppets, I mean), where juicy BPs are stacked four a city, could the Reich use this BPs freely in this same turn to improve it's social politics, healthcare system and peace enforcement plan in Europe? By building tanks and Stukas, precisely?

Ok, I'll ask more clearly . It is this paragraph which confuses me:

In a later production step, you can remove those build points from the map and add them to your build point total. You may spend any number saved at your capital. No more than 1 saved build point may be consumed per turn from each other city, useable factory and port (e.g. you can spend 5 saved build points on production in New York and unlimited in Moscow each turn).

What can Germany do with captured BPs from collapsed Vichy France, exactly? And when? Can it handle a fistful of them to Italy in the turn of the collapse? And would Italy be able to use them immedately?

Thanks as usual!
Roberkhan
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Germany will gain control of the Vichy-controlled BPs immediately because when Germany collapses Vichy, the hexes the BPs are in become German-controlled and thus, the BPs too. (13.6.8: If you gain control of a hex containing saved build points, they become yours.) The BPs remain in their hex though until production (BPs can be transported by rail but only during the appropriate step, 13.6.1).

Germany can then use these captured build points as normal in the production step. Germany can't give them directly to Italy because the lending resources/BPs step happens earlier in the turn - and in any case you never promise to give SPECIFIC BP from one power to another.

The para you cited means during production you can remove the (for example) 8 BP you have saved on the map, add them to the BP your factories just produced, spend whatever amount you want, and then if you choose, save unused BP wherever you could normally.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Ok, so the sequence in the production step should be:
- Calculate German production as usual.
- Add captured BPs to the total, but only respecting the limit of 1 per city? So, for example, if I own now five Vichy cities and ports with a fistful of BPs in each of them, I can only spend 5 a turn? This is the part I don't fully understand.
- Give promised BPs to Italy, if any.
- Spend at will.

Thanks for the help! I'm a bit thickhead with this rule.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Roberkhan wrote:
Ok, so the sequence in the production step should be:
- Calculate German production as usual.
- Add captured BPs to the total, but only respecting the limit of 1 per city? So, for example, if I own now five Vichy cities and ports with a fistful of BPs in each of them, I can only spend 5 a turn? This is the part I don't fully understand.
- Give promised BPs to Italy, if any.
- Spend at will.

Thanks for the help! I'm a bit thickhead with this rule.


The limit of one BP COUNTER per city (which could be a 4-pt counter) only applies to SAVING build points. Not SPENDING them - there is no restriction on spending saved build points. Spend them all right away; if you don't the nasty Allies will take them from you.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Oh, then I understood the rule completely upside down!
Fortunately, it has not had any relevance in the game. No one strat. bombed Vichy, so the order of piling has not been important.

Thanks for the clarification!
Roberkhan
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
On with Vichy and it's shenanigans:

- Germany installed Vichy. Italy collapsed it moving a unit to Marseilles, where the VF fleet was stationed. Do the surviving VF naval units become Italian or German? As German player, I understand that they would be more useful in Italian hands, but, at the same time, I would like to give them Wagnerian names and keep them just for the fetish.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Roberkhan wrote:
On with Vichy and it's shenanigans:

- Germany installed Vichy. Italy collapsed it moving a unit to Marseilles, where the VF fleet was stationed. Do the surviving VF naval units become Italian or German?


Neither - under Vichy French Collapse, it says: "All on map Vichy naval units are now Free French. Treat each of them in a home country or territory now controlled by an Axis major power as if it had been surprised when overrun (see 11.11.6)."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Of course! What kind of rulesmisreading abusive monster do you think I am?
I mean all such units that have rolled "1" when overruned in Marseilles. Which happily happen to be the Richelieu and the Dunquerque
Say "German", please, say "German" whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Roberkhan wrote:
Of course! What kind of rulesmisreading abusive monster do you think I am?




Roberkhan wrote:
I mean all such units that have rolled "1" when overruned in Marseilles. Which happily happen to be the Richelieu and the Dunquerque
Say "German", please, say "German" whistle


Well then it depends - who caused the collapse, Germany or Italy? If Italy, then they will be Italian...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Then, they are Italian. I was wrong. Our Italian player will rename the Richelieu Tony Soprano. It's a good name for a battleship and now Italy has five such things in the Med. Not bad, after all!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Oh, great. Now partisans arise in France. They will probably show up in some of the BPs loaded cities. Do you know if they can burn them all in one production step or only one per step?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All at once. You actually got partisans in Vichy France?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rober Khan
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
Dammit! That means 4 BPs less for the Axis of Evil

We just collapsed Vichy France -Italy did, they are so hot-blooded- and suddenly all those tamed pseudofascist bureaucrats at Vichy are rampaging on the streets screaming for the freedom of France. And they will burn all the BPs there.
We needed our Turkish new friends to cross Syria and stab Wavell in the back, that's why we decided for the early collapse. Oh, and Mussolini wanted some Bersaglieri to run to Rabat, but it is now full of Brits. We are having a very amusing game !
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.