Peter Bonner
United Kingdom
Grantham
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I refer you all to update 9 on Kickstarter:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnwrot/the-kings-armor...

Quote:
Every post, every thumb, every comment counts toward our 'trending' or as BGG calls it "The Hotness".
When we trend onto the Hotness (it's not very hard, others have done it before us) then we will get an awful lot of free advertising on BGG's home page.


Quote:
Last step - Claim your rewards!

If you care to be rewarded for your effort, I'm going to give away our Electronic Wallpapers from our IndieGoGo campaign to anyone who does the above things.
~Do a little, get a wallpaper of your choice, just for helping out!
~Do a lot, get em all!
This is just a humble bonus as our extra thanks for your time.
Just be sure to PM me and let me know. I won't be able to track it all myself. Honor system, and don't be too shy to tell me. I will not announce what you've done.


We all know that kickstarted games want to be shown on BGG.

I do wonder whether good games can be created by someone with this sort of attitude.

I'm currently on kickstarter but I'll be looking at withdrawing.

PS I Know that I'm just helping in this shameless self-promotion, perhaps I just need to accept it and show lots more exclamation marks!



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelly N.
United States
Richmond
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Totally disagree.

The creator is simply interested in bringing visibility of the game to others who may not have noticed it yet.

He is not making any claims about the games greatness nor is he demanding that people back it. He is simply hoping it will be visible to as many folks as possible so that they can judge the game on its own merits....whether good or bad.



11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alfred Wallace
United States
Champaign
IL
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A tiny little company like this has enormous problems getting games, and themselves, noticed--everybody follows what Z-Man does, but there are a billion (est.) little Kickstarter companies. Why not enlist their supporters to bang the drum a little bit? Nobody's being asked to lie; presumably people who back the project wish it well, and in exchange for a token of that on BGG they get a wallpaper. If that's not your thing, you don't get a wallpaper.

And if a tiny publisher took a different attitude--"Don't make a big deal out of this game on BGG; it'll be a success or not, we'll see"--then rest assured that we'll probably never know if they'd make a good second game.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trent Hamm
United States
Huxley
Iowa
flag msg tools
See this text? It's a gratuitous waste of GeekGold.
badge
The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I predicted at the start of the year that at some point in 2013, a game designer would try to game the hotness on BGG.

See prediction #2 - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/16454/12-semi-controve... - "An "enterprising" game publisher will utilize distributed computing to cheaply "game" the BGG hotness list." This is exactly what they're doing - they're using distributed computing (i.e. all of their KS backers) to game the hotness list.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Leoniak
United States
Marlboro
Vermont
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have no problem doing what the designer suggested. This game looks pretty fun and I am hoping to get a copy. For that to happen it needs to be funded, so more people need to be aware of it. The Hotness is a way to make it more visible to many gamers who do not have it on their radar. They can decided for themselves whether or not they want to back it, but at least they had the option and were made aware that the game existed. By doing the suggested steps I feel like i'm doing my part in making this game a reality (well at least a little more then pledging the money). I am not doing it for the designer; i'm doing it for myself, because i'd really like to get my hands on the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelly N.
United States
Richmond
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
....and by the way.

As a backer, you should be pleased that the creator is doing what he can to maintain momentum during a commonly understood/accepted Kickstarter lull which will hopefully combat that issue and create better funding. Which, in turn, will benefit all backers in the end.

Further, the creator has spent a significant amount of money advertising with BGG, so a bit of "free" visibility is not undeserved.

Lastly, the update in question has beckoned KS backers to actually create an account at BGG if they aren't currently members. This will definitely make BGG happy as they now have more users to advertise to and for.

The tally from above = win, win, win!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wayne Schulatz
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
Look, I have overtext!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
peter100 wrote:



PS I Know that I'm just helping in this shameless self-promotion, perhaps I just need to accept it and show lots more exclamation marks!





We worked on the exclamation points. I haven't found them to be as excessive.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stoibs
Australia
Sunshine Coast
QLD
flag msg tools
mb
This is frowned upon?
Kickstarter itself uses certain formulae to determine what is shown on the 'popular' list, one of which is the amount and volume of comments which many people have cottoned on to, thus spamming the comments section with off topic and idle banter has become a similar 'cheap' method lately in various other projects.

As for asking people to thumb up and spread the word around...
I admit I'm a bit of a board gaming and BGG noob, but of the 90 or so Video game Kickstarters I've backed this is a pretty standard tactic to gain awareness and visibility, sharing, liking, upvoting on Steam Greenlight etc.

Especially when we have Shadows of Brimstone, Journey: Wrath of Demons and Mars attacks all running - ofcourse the 'little' guys are going to want exposure and a bit of the limelight to be noticed.

It's still chugging along and not even funded yet so I don't see the problem..?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Meyer
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

If you think you may like the game then why withdraw your pledge? I did back Kings Armor at first and then I withdrew my pledge because of two reasons... First, I thought it was too much money and secondly, my wife looked at it and thought it wasn't her type of game. Those were our reasons.
I too have backed some games on Kickstarter and some campaigns just want more exposure to sell the game to make money (and who doesn't want to make money). Just as another post had said, if you don't want to push the game for them, then don't. But at the same time, if you think you'd like King's Armory and it looks fun to you then back it, just ignore the pushing factor.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
badge
Sometimes life is scary and dark. That is why we must find the light. -BMO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
trenttsd wrote:
I predicted at the start of the year that at some point in 2013, a game designer would try to game the hotness on BGG.

See prediction #2 - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/16454/12-semi-controve... - "An "enterprising" game publisher will utilize distributed computing to cheaply "game" the BGG hotness list." This is exactly what they're doing - they're using distributed computing (i.e. all of their KS backers) to game the hotness list.


Congratulations. You successfully predicted an event that had already happened in 2012. You're powers of intuition amaze me. whistle

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rose
United States
New York City
NY
flag msg tools
"And forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." - Khalil Gibran
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Peter, I had felt this way at the beginning when most of John's posts were about playing the Kickstarter video many many times, rather than more info about the game itself. Update 3 actually already mentions the BGG hotness (as well as the video item). HOWEVER, I'd like this game AND I want the stretch goals. Do I find the reminders to help promote the game annoying? Yes. But I'd prefer the reminders and the game than neither. I'd also like to not have politicians need to spend so much money to advertise for elections. And a winning lottery ticket for a big jackpot. For now, I'll settle for the game and a lot of stretch goals.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan B
United States
West Melbourne
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure I understand the logic of this post. I don't mean to sound like a punk or anything, and I certainly don't hope to offend, but I am not sure how what is stated makes sense.

peter100 wrote:
We all know that kickstarted games want to be shown on BGG.


I understand this. Makes sense by itself. The next line...

peter100 wrote:
I do wonder whether good games can be created by someone with this sort of attitude.



I cannot find a reason for this wonder. If I follow correctly, the implied logic of the statement goes as follows:

1. Kickstarted games want publicity.
2. BGG provides a good opportunity for publicity.
3. Kickstarted games, then, want to be shown on BGG.
Here is where things get more complicated and muddled.
4. Good games get shown on BGG because many people like them and keep their pages active.
5. For a kickstarted game to shown on BGG, it must be good.
6. This goodness will be measured by how much and many people like them and keep their pages active.
7. Good kickstarted games, then, will naturally be shown because many people like them and keep their pages active.
8. Not good games will not be shown naturally on BGG because not many people like them and keep their pages active.
9. Any designer who encourages people to like his/her game and keep its pages active must have designed a bad game.
10. Thus, The King's Armory is a bad game.

Hopefully, just walking through the steps demonstrates the flaws here, but a few salient thoughts:
-Not all games shown on BGG are good
-Most kickstarted games by virtue of being kickstarted games do not have many people who like them since they haven't been developed yet and backers are investing in the creation of the game
-Whether or not a designer encourages people to like his/her game and keep its pages active has no bearing on whether or not people will actually like the game and keep its pages active. This is true in a sense of being (i.e. there were people who liked the game and kept the pages active before the encouragement) and in a sense of action (encouragement cannot force anyone to like the game and keep its pages active).
-It can be argued that a good game designer (both in the quality and moral sense) wants to share their game with as many people as possible rather than keep it to a select few. Enlisting others to help allows for a greater number of people to benefit

So what is the point in all this? Mainly, it is to show that the stated reason by the OP for not getting behind this project is not the real reason. Furthermore, based on what was posted, it seems relatively safe to assume that the real reason is based on feeling rather than logic, based on logic using different suppositions that have not been stated, or faulty logic. If it is the latter, then hopefully this post helped clear that up and Peter can once again have confidence in his decision to back The King's Armory. If it is based on good logic, then Peter is not telling us his real starting premises since the ones given have been dealt with. Finally, and I suspect most likely, there is an emotional reason for not backing - perhaps the designer asking and rewarding backers for "attacking BGG" left a bad taste in his mouth - which is fine. No one ever said we have to use logic to make all our decisions. Pascal put it this way: "The heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nothing." If there is some irrational reason (such as title suggests - a lack of subtlety puts him off), then it would be more irrational of me to attempt to use reason to convince him.

The upshot of this is this: Reader, I hope you checkout and ultimately back The King's Armory on Kickstarter. I think it is a great game and that you will enjoy it. Peter, I hope I have not offended you. Not because I want you to back the game, which I do since I don't believe gameplay will be affected by the designer's tactics or subtlety in advertising and you were interested in the game, but because one of my irrational suppositions is that you, and all people, deserve respect even if they hold an opinion that I think is wrong until they prove they are not worthy of it. I don't believe you have done so, thus I hope you feel no disrespect.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Wilker
Germany
Lemgo
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
For me I love it to have so many possibilities to support this game. In the past I have pledged for a game which did not go well and was not funded until the last week. This was horrible for me,because I had no idea how to help this game getting more attention.

Here it is different. I have tons of ways to support the game. Not only with money - I do not have this much - but also with my time. And even if you do not like this kind of promotion, then why not just ignore it? When you think this game is good enough to back it then just do it.

I think you could even unsubscribe from the update notification and come back on 28.11 to see if it was funded or not and then be happy the this game was eventually funded.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Ham
Malta
Marsalforn
Gozo, Malta
flag msg tools
badge
CLICK THIS BEAGLE if you're looking for in-depth gameplay video run-throughs! :)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
peter100 wrote:
I do wonder whether good games can be created by someone with this sort of attitude.

Having played the prototype, I can answer YES to that question.

And further, self promotion is hugely important in any creative commercial venture. Nothing wrong with it at all, in fact, one would be a fool not to self promote wherever possible.

So if anything, I'd say someone with this attitude is MORE likely to create good games, because it means they're smart, passionate, and driven
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stoic Bird
United States
Fairport
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I definitely understand what you're saying, OP - I had a negative first reaction myself (and John is a close friend of mine, so I'm not inclined to feel that way).

However, I thought about it and realized my reaction was all emotion. Essentially, what he did was explain to people an effective way to demonstrate their interest in the game - anyone who's interested in wallpapers is likely to be excited enough to want to tell people about it anyway. Just about every company in the world tries to mobilize their fans on Facebook and Twitter, and this isn't really any different just because there's a method involved.

I also appreciated the hotness explanation. I'd always assumed that was unique page views.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mb
Holding unofficial promotional contests is a violation of site rules.

Giving incentives to thumb content is a violation of site rules.

This thread is locked.



3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.