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Subject: Whyyyyyyyyyyyy??????? rss

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Josh Koehn
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Either this game is impossible, or I just stink, and I hope it is not the ladder because I sort of consider myself a gamer. In short I have played maybe 10-15 games never been traitor, never won (I did get one move away once, I identified the traitor and declaring him would be the twelfth sword, but I wasn't at the round table, one player was and I told him to accuse and thus win the gameshake, however the traitor tried to say that I was as hedevil, unable to decide the player at the round table (this was a three player game) chose to draw; the traitor squealed with delight as he then finished the gamesoblue)(I also was once four grails away but black cards thrashed ussoblue. Any tips for a continual loser?
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Eric Clason
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First, 3 player games are harder for the loyal knights to win that 6 player games. 5 to 1 is easier than 2 to 1.

Are most losses due to siege engines or black swords?

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Josh Koehn
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Sorry about the double post, and thanks for the response. As of yet we have only lost once to black swords. (I think) It's mostly siege engines.
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DuelistofAges wrote:
Any tips for a continual loser?


probably put it on the shelf, for good

the game does nothing to reward you as you play

get the holy grail? oh, now holy grail cards add to the siege engines

it's really a silly mechanic, if not a 'cheat mode' for the AI in the game
 
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J. Riddell
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Here are some pointers off the top of my head.

Don't move around a lot.
Make sure everyone is on the quest to receive spoils of victory.
Don't spread out. Go to quests together and make a big dent in them or win them quickly.
Make sure King Arthur is trading cards nearly every round. Make sure everyone is using their power often.
Forget about the dragon.
Don't win the Holy Grail or Excalibur too early. Don't underestimate how hard they can be to win when at last you need to.
Don't get stuck needing too many cards on Lancelot's Armor or the Black Knight.
Your go to quests are the Picts and the Saxons. Win them often and abandon them if you have a good chance at losing.
Black cards are typically a better risk than siege engines.
Remember your Merlin cards and use them wisely.
Don't forget about sacrificing life points. Do so often to gain an additional action. Hover around 2 points and not many more.
Remember it is co-operative, so don't compete when making big plays.
Sacrifice yourself if it allows you to make a big play.
Don't stick around Camelot too long filling up with cards. Use other methods to gain cards (winning quests and placing face down black cards)

I also think that playing with 3 and a traitor is too hard. Go full co-op until you get used to winning. If playing with a traitor don't throw away accusations and don't accuse too early because they become more dangerous once exposed. If playing as the traitor be sure to stay within the spirit of the game and remain concealed (don't blatantly expose your disloyalty through destructive play)

The first several times we played, like you, we couldn't imagine how anyone could win. Now it is fairly difficult to lose, but the game is tight enough to always keep it interesting.
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Steven Robinson
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I only won this game once, and that's because I cheated. I was tired of losing every single game I played.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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DuelistofAges wrote:
I did get one move away once, I identified the traitor and declaring him would be the twelfth sword, but I wasn't at the round table...


You don't need to be at the round table to make an accusation, even in a 3 player game. You should have accused him and won that game.

That being said, here are some tips:

1. The strongest opening move: draw extra cards for your first action in Camelot then spend 1 life to move to Lancelot. This by far is the best move for anyone, regardless of side. Ideally, you want to have this power to tip the cards to one side or the other. Otherwise, you do not want the power to fall to someone else. Worst case scenario, no one gets it (but this rarely happens) but if Arthur is in the game gently persuade him/her to give you the cards you need.

2. Shadows is all about bullying the traitors into being helpful. The idea is that they have to maintain the guise of seeming loyal or be found out so make sure you keep them to task.

3. The grail and Excalibur are long quests and will rarely be completed early in the game (nor should they be). Instead, once Lancelot is finished the Black Knight/Picts-Saxons are going to be the quests that get you the swords you need. Do these early and often.

4. SPEND LIFE POINTS. If you don't do this, you'll lose.
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Nico
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But I don’t want to go among mad people
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Never Knows Best wrote:
DuelistofAges wrote:
I did get one move away once, I identified the traitor and declaring him would be the twelfth sword, but I wasn't at the round table...


You don't need to be at the round table to make an accusation, even in a 3 player game. You should have accused him and won that game.

That being said, here are some tips:

1. The strongest opening move: draw extra cards for your first action in Camelot then spend 1 life to move to Lancelot. This by far is the best move for anyone, regardless of side. Ideally, you want to have this power to tip the cards to one side or the other. Otherwise, you do not want the power to fall to someone else. Worst case scenario, no one gets it (but this rarely happens) but if Arthur is in the game gently persuade him/her to give you the cards you need.

2. Shadows is all about bullying the traitors into being helpful. The idea is that they have to maintain the guise of seeming loyal or be found out so make sure you keep them to task.

3. The grail and Excalibur are long quests and will rarely be completed early in the game (nor should they be). Instead, once Lancelot is finished the Black Knight/Picts-Saxons are going to be the quests that get you the swords you need. Do these early and often.

4. SPEND LIFE POINTS. If you don't do this, you'll lose.


1. Only if you got the right cards after drawing and with King Arthur in the game. Otherwise it would just be a waste of cards and turns. Then it's better to let some other player try (who may be the traitor).

2. Right, but after playing many games with the same group there is nearly no way for the traitor to do something bad and stay hidden other than hiding good white cards in his hand.

3. Right.

4. Right.

@OP: A 3 player game with a traitor is nearly impossible to win. A simple strategy for the traitor is: just place siege engines. You need at least two people at Camelot (one fights, one draws cards; remember, both counts as heroic action of Caemlot, you can't do both in one turn). With 3 players there is no one left who can finish the rest of the game.
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David
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With three players including a traitor I don't think you'll ever make it. With more there are some principles:

1) Lots of discussion of actions keeps the traitor honest. Every turn that the traitor isn't playing a siege engine is a win for the knights (unless the traitor gets Lancelot's armour).

2) The knights should pick their targets and commit to finishing them en masse rather than spreading their forces.

3) Yeah, spend life points. Lots of them. Towards the end of the game losing a few knights isn't actually a disadvantage. And there's the daft 'even if you spend your last life point in PoE phase you still get the rest of your turn' rule which tilts the game the knights' way.
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Doug Hook
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bayushi_david wrote:
...if you spend your last life point in PoE phase you still get the rest of your turn' rule which tilts the game the knights' way.


The above is incorrect. You must survive the Progression of Evil Phase in order to take any Heroic Action.

References:
Rule book page 12, item 2: "If you survive the progression of Evil phase, you must then undertake one of five Heroic Actions." Your Life points can never go below zero. So if it goes to zero in the POE phase you are dead, end of turn.

See also:
Bruno des Montagnes in his post of Thu, 21 July 2005 11:21 at DoW: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=4531&start=0 states in part:

On your turn you have 2 steps:
1- progression of evil
2- heroic action
if you die during step 1, the only way to be saved is use of the grail
Other ways (lady of the lake, etc..) are heroic actions. And you can't do an heroic action during step 1.

Additionally Bruno Cathala (Bruno des Montagnes) in his post of Mon, Jun 20,2005 8:18 pm also clarifies this issue at:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/68816/2-quick-questions-merl...: "if you lose your last life point during evil progression, your turn is immediatly (sic) finished."

I believe the often cited reference that reads, "you die and disappear from the game at the end of your game turn" is a misprint and should read 'you die and disappear from the game at the end of your game phase.'
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Bill Eldard
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It's a much better game with more than 3 players. I'd say we beat the traitor about 50% of the time.
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Josh Koehn
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Thank you all for your help and I hope I can try some of these on the new PBF. (if after all this failure I can join in).
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Doug Hook
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"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Sounds like a plan. See you there. There will be 7 players!
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Josh Koehn
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Thanks to everyone for the tips. I just won my first game after reading these tips. now I will add in Merlin's company (and will proceed to lose).

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David
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chadnorth wrote:
I believe the often cited reference that reads, "you die and disappear from the game at the end of your game turn" is a misprint and should read 'you die and disappear from the game at the end of your game phase.'


That's exactly what I was going off of. That's good to know, it makes a lot more sense and is fairer.
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