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Subject: All Heroes are Isolated = Automatic loss? rss

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Tyler Durden
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Situation:
Corner room, three heroes, the bird.
the bird isolated all three heroes in a three hero game

rules are saying that each hero has 1 AP
Heros can support each other with 1 AP to get more dice
Heros can only escape all together or don't escape at all

So i have to roll three escape symbols with the one throw i have (1 AP from the rolling hero + each other hero spends 1AP to support that roll)
Heroes are only free when there are three escape symbols. if there are just one or two that's it... turn over ..
and the same procedure next round.
so the game is lost?
 
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David Ausloos
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Yes.
3 player can be very tough, as it is not always safe to split up in a 2-1 group combination, but sometimes you need to, to be have a chance at escaping entrapement. This makes the bird on of the most lethal creatures in the game when played with few characters.
4 character allows you to split up in groups of 2, which makes a hughe difference.
 
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Tyler Durden
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okay
i think my main issue concerning the game will be it's length
loosing a coop is fine. you have to loose them regularly.
but loosing it cause of such a situation which came out of nothing after 2hours of gaming ist frustrating.
i the game would last just one hour that would be fine... reset everything and try again.
but so you spend one hole evening and fail ... and have no chance to play it again on that evening if you are not student.
that's really sad because you WANT to play it again and DO it.
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Tyrone ..................
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Or how about you just house rule the game for such situations? Obviously the game is actually designed to be played with 4-5 characters so anytime you play with less have it to where you can roll your 3 dice and each individual character can start to free themselves and then help to free the others? I find it funny that everyone forgets they don't have a ref standing over them when they play. Play the game so it's fun for you, rules in games are basically guidelines in my opinion. Especially when it's a game like this one that was built to only be played with a set amount of characters.

By the way, it would be "losing" in English, not "loosing" which means something else entirely.
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Tyrone ..................
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I just thought of something else. You could also play it to where you could have 1 or 2 gray cubes that you keep on your character card that could represent adrenaline. You could spend one to roll 2 extra dice specifically in an entrapment escape roll.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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ausloosd wrote:
Yes.
3 player can be very tough, as it is not always safe to split up in a 2-1 group combination, but sometimes you need to, to be have a chance at escaping entrapement. This makes the bird on of the most lethal creatures in the game when played with few characters.
4 character allows you to split up in groups of 2, which makes a hughe difference.


I'd like to point out that in the english rules under the Undead Birds ability, it says any survivor entrapped by the lightening symbol, stays entrapped until the bird is killed.

UNDEAD BIRD
One survivor in the creature's room (player's choice), is entrapped, if possible. This entrapped survivor can be freed only by destroying the creature.


I took it to mean the Undead Birds entrapped ability breaks the rules. Is this a misprint?

Jorune
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Tyrone ..................
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Ouch. I haven't had the bird entrap anyone yet. That would be the way it is with the bird then, card/creature effects always over ride the normal rules.
 
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Tyler Durden
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so before your first game you should be warned: "hey if there is the bird creature coming up, split you group up or you have a high chance to loose"

i think that's okay if you know it before. but if you don't that's another frustrating moment. i am sure with over 120 play this becomes second nature, but with 2 play that just leads to one thing: disappointment.

are there more thing you should need to know how you should better handle them BEFORE you play and that situation occurs?
i know there are people who such mechanisms are fun - i am not one of them.
as normaler gamer you have no idea about the importance of this situation, you need a lot of experience, and with a 2-3 hours game it is hard to get that much experience if every game is so frustrating ...
 
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Michael Meyer
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Maybe you should allow you to set some "savepoints" (for example 3 times per game), like they are used in computer-games (just before a huge enemy appears).

If someting like your bird-problem happens, you just go back to this "savepoint".... and do it different.

Don't know if this is possible (didn't try).. it was just an idea, because the game is quite a bit like a Computer game... especially with the "final Showdown".
 
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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Read the rule book. Read it again. By reading the rule book it's pretty apparent how dangerous the bird is. It's pretty dangerous how entrapment can be. It's a wonderful zombie movie moment that has a great mechanic in this game to simulate it.

That said, you're an early adopter of the game. Your learning the ins and outs which comes with the territory. If it bothers you that much, shelve the game until someone else writes up the noob strategy guide for you.

For some people they like discovering these little strategies. Caylus this isn't.

Jorune
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Tyrone ..................
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toerck wrote:
i think that's okay if you know it before. but if you don't that's another frustrating moment. i am sure with over 120 play this becomes second nature, but with 2 play that just leads to one thing: disappointment.


Apparently there's only one thing left for you to do: Sell your game.
All you do is complain about how disappointing it is for you so it's not for you. It sounds like you need to go back to playing less complex games.

EDIT: I also find it a little scary that you label yourself as a "Game Reviewer" and yet you seem to have problems grasping concepts that exist in games. For one, it is noted in the rules what the bird's special ability consists of, rules for entrapment are pretty clear, and it's also clear about targeting different areas of a creature to destroy/lessen that ability (hopefully before the creature even has a chance to attack.) Normally my strategy is to get rid of the creatures bite before it reaches me since Zombification is so bad, but seeing the birds nasty entrapment ability I would have targeted this first before the creature attacked.
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