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Risk: The Walking Dead – Survival Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Same problem as Risk 2210 ? rss

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I've been reading the rules, and it seems that it is a great advantage to be the last player, as in Risk 2210:

As in Risk 2210, the winner is the player who has the most territories at the end of the game.

On his turn, a player draws an event card before he makes any invasions. WHen the OVERRUN event card is revealed from the Event deck, it signals the end of the game: the round will goes on til every player have played his turn in the round.

So the last player may spread his troops without fearing future invasions. There will be 4 lasts outbreaks, ok, but he may know more or less where they will/won't occur depending on how the territory deck has been emptied.

And it seems to be a great disavantage to be the first player: you will probably play your last turn without knowing you are; the Overrun card will mostly be drawn by the next players, who will end the last round knowing it is the last one.

That must imbalanced a lot the game, maybe more than in Risk 2210 as in that version of Risk, everybody knows when is the last turn and may have special cards to play, and you have to pay for being the last player. Here, it is free, no cunterpart.

And it must highly imbalanced the 2 player game.


What do you think ?

(sorry for my poor english...)
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Ryan Allen
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Only 1 game of experience (3 player).

But it didn't make much difference being last. THe game ended on the last players turn, on turn 5.

I'd say overall the zombies won.

Player 1: 5 turns of 3 armies each, only 3 crates earn, 4 bullets (used for VP)
Player 2: 5 turns of 3 armies each, 5 crates earned, one 4 survivor bonus for area control. 4 bullets turned in for 7 armies (2 bullet VPs)
Player 3: 5 turns of 3 armies each, 4 crates earned, 3 bullets turned in for 4 armies (2 bullets VPs)

The Zombies however, 3 Zombies turn 1, 12 zombies turn 2, 18 zombies turn 3, and 36 zombies each on turns 4/5.

Add to that the zombie kills (even with player 1 playing the Greens) and the zombies rocked the board.

This is defintely NOT risk - it's an entirely different game. With the modern 3 attack / 2 defense rules - the zombies can get out of control in any battle. Even against the +1 vs Zombies die modifiers, a couple of bad rolls will have 3 attacking zombies eating your strongest army for lunch and actually GAINING strength against a counterattack.

I'll need a few more playings JUST TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO. I'm pretty sure the Green Family Group won simply on their special ability - preventing their units from rising as zombies. That and the added VPs for NOT turning in supply crates for armies.

You really are trying to survive. I've re-read the rules twice to make sure we didn't miss something and came here looking for tips.

If you really think the 'last attack' is an advantage perhaps changing the OVERRUN! card to:

The Game ends immediately, conduct one more Zombie outbreak.

While this might give some players one extra turn (and one extra ammo crate) it will keep the game end as a surpise. I'm almost convinced attacking with every spare army is the right thing to do, at least losing them against other players prevents them from becoming zombies... I'll see how it goes.



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Dan Zak
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Being last is actually really bad I have found since you have to go through X number of outbreaks equal to the players in the game. So you deploy last and hope to god the zombies don't rip apart your armies during the time it takes to wait for your turn. Do get me wrong everyone has a equal chance to get an outbreak in their territories but the last players has the most time waiting for their careful planning to get destroyed by zombies. While this is a downfall for the last player, they can be the most opportunistic given that zombies don't block the way to their opponents. Last player on the last turn of the game can really change the game if the outbreaks land in their favor but they still need the units to make it happen.
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Dan Zak
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The biggest tip for winning the game is playing with the zombie outbreaks. When you have a big zombie pile up at a territory and need it for a zone bonus just let it go and work towards taking out softened up targets but being in the right place at the right time only affords that. I have played about 10 or so games now and I have found that a defensive game against zones controlled is a good way to go while edging up against enemies and waiting for a outbreak. The zombies really put fear in all the players to attack so wait for the best chance. Your opponent may be doing the same but here are a few group tips:

Prisoners: They rock at taking out other opponents, attacking guard posts and ensure small groups of zombies get killed off.

Rick: They are great at making up for front line losses during the outbreaks. The maneuver really keeps you going even after a setback provided zombies don't overrun your territories.

Governor: Awesome for sending in three units against a much larger zombie horde and hoping you get lucky. I know it is a long shot but this changes games.

Greene Family: The stabilization of the hordes really allows you to cut your zombie opposition so you can focus on sending smaller groups of units against zombies without worrying about making a territory harder to take.

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Andrew Wolf
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I had the same concerns when designing the game, so I DID include the rule for Walkers to resolve one final Outbreak after the final player turn. It is explained on page 13 of the rules, but we could have put in on the Overrun card, too. I do recommend that you play this way to mitigate any potential advantage perceived by getting the last turn.

unixboy23 wrote:


You really are trying to survive. I've re-read the rules twice to make sure we didn't miss something and came here looking for tips.

If you really think the 'last attack' is an advantage perhaps changing the OVERRUN! card to:

The Game ends immediately, conduct one more Zombie outbreak.

While this might give some players one extra turn (and one extra ammo crate) it will keep the game end as a surpise. I'm almost convinced attacking with every spare army is the right thing to do, at least losing them against other players prevents them from becoming zombies... I'll see how it goes.



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Tony
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Finally got around to playing the game, and I think the OP is 100% correct. Give how the Overrun card works, there is a HUGE advantage to playing later in the round. As noted in my review (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1095437/review-of-risk-the-w...), this is the main thing I didn't like about the game.

El_Tonio wrote:

The thing I liked least about the game is that Overrun card mechanic gives a very big advantage to those going later in the last round. This is because when the Overrun card is drawn, the game ends as soon as the current round is finished (i.e., after everyone has had their turn for the round). The problem is that more often than not it will be pulled after some people have gone, which to give an unfair advantage to those going later in the round. That is, those going after it was drawn can make choices with full information -- like saving ammo crates, breaking alliances/promises with impunity, deciding if they need to go after an extra territory for points, etc. -- while those going before cannot. To fix this, I am thinking about adding a house rule that the round after the Overrun card is drawn (as opposed to the round it is drawn) is the final round (still not perfect, but much less of a problem than it was in our game).



I think the suggested house rule will go a long way toward fixing this (the extra round could use event cards if there are enough left for everyone, or not use them if there are not enough left for everyone).
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Aaron Waters
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So I haven't played this particular version of Risk myself yet. I am familiar with quite a few versions, however, including 2210, Legacy, Lord of the Rings, and others. That being said, if this really is a problem here's my suggestion for a fix:

Use the house rule above as suggested (i.e. playing one additional full round after the round where the Overrun card is drawn), but in order to keep that from extending the length of the game, move one card per player from the top of the event deck to the bottom after setting it up as specified in the rules. This effectively forces the Overrun card to show up one round earlier than it would have otherwise, keeping the total number of rounds in the 4-7 range as originally intended.

I also like the suggestion of using event cards in the last round only if there are enough for everyone (the odds of which shouldn't, I believe, have changed at all due to my suggested setup).

Anyway, that's just my $.02. Hope it helps and I look forward to getting an opportunity to try this one myself. Looks very interesting.
 
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Michael Wohlwend
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This answer may be out of date, but ...

If the ending is a problem for your group you can solve it by
drawing the cards in another way:

Shuffle the cards without the overrun card and divide it to the players, so that every player has the same amount of cards. So every player draws from its own stack of cards during the game (which doesn't matter at all, since the cards are shuffled anyway)

Determine the start player, which puts one of his cards back into the game box unseen. (I am not sure if this is necessary)

He then shuffles the overrun card into the second halve of his cards.
Play normal and if the overrun card is drawn resolve the last outbreak and end the game.

The effect is, that the overrun card is only drawn at the being of a round so all players had the same number of rounds.


Michael


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