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Subject: Crew Cut in Job and cheating rss

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Dmitry Ch
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I think, it's possibly to find veeeery easy job with payment that is not enough to satisfy even crew payment expectations. What will you do in such case? I think, it would be logical to decide, how to distribute money, and choose, who will get Disgruntled tokens.

Ha. And question #2) In theory, you can finish your job with Work Action, take all the money (leave all crew without their cuts), place Disgruntled tokens at all of them and in this turn, as a second action, use Buy Action to make a Shore Leave for all of them and remove all Disgruntled tokens. I think it would be cheaper. What can prevent player from acting like this every time? If he act like this in one turn, without break, other players cannot use this moment to come and buy Disgruntled crew.
I did not find rule protection from this kind of cheating (IMHO).

Sorry for my english.
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Bryan Fischer
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I agree that the disgruntled/shore leave thing is not in the spirit of the game. It only costs you $100, but it also costs you an action. I'd like for someone with several plays of this game to weigh in on this.
 
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Neil Logan
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Regardless how much the job pays, you still need to pay all of your crew. The money from the job goes straight into your funds (rather than to the crew), and then you need to pay the crew from there. Of course, you are welcome to not pay some members and give them tokens instead at any point. I assume the same is true if you have no money left to pay some crew members.
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Carl Bussema
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I've played 3 times. Actions are precious. Every game has been close, with one player being 1 or 2 actions behind (subject to flight hazards or misbehaving misfortune, but very close, at any rate). Spending that extra action to fix disgruntled means you're not getting closer to victory (i.e., your next job) this turn.

Now, we certainly have taken to not paying the crew when we know that it's last turn or we're going to reach the goal if we don't, etc. That's just smart play.
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Marek Adrian
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I'm not sure if this is what you are asking about, but for the purpose of question 1 lets say that during the game you keep your credits in a "wallet".
As I understand when you complete a job you actually have to go through 3 steps:
1.Get paid
take the Pay amount of money from the bank to your "wallet".
2.Get bonus
if you have a crew member with the listed profession take the Bonus amount of money from the bank to your "wallet".
3.Pay crew
For each crew member either give money from your "wallet" to the bank (equal to his recruitment cost) of give him a Disgruntled token.
So even if the payment for the job is too low to pay your whole crew, you can still do it, but you have to give them some of your savings.

As for the 2 question first of all you can only use a Buy action if you are on a Supply Planet, so for this trick to work it has to end in one of the five Sectors where those planets are (page 10 of the manual :"When your Firefly is in a Sector with a Supply Planet, you may use your
Buy Action to give your Crew Shore Leave,..."). Also if there is another player at the same sector he can buy off any of your Disgruntled crew members between your Work action and your Buy action, as I understand, because buying off crew members does not require an action at all. But if you are alone on a Supply Planet and you finish a job the trick seems legit, although you waste your second action for Shore Leave, so you can't even buy anything (well, expect fuel or parts).
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GodRob
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taschu wrote:
But if you are alone on a Supply Planet and you finish a job the trick seems legit, although you waste your second action for Shore Leave, so you can't even buy anything (well, expect fuel or parts).


I don't think you can buy fuel or parts during Shore Leave either. See top of page 9 under Buy Actions.

Taking a Buy Action allows you to purchase Supply Cards and restock Fuel and Parts. Alternatively, you can use your Action for Shore Leave.

On page 10 under Shore Leave is says ...you may use your Buy Action to to give your crew Shore Leave, instead of buying Supply Cards. I think this is just poorly worded and not as precise as page 9. It can also be interpreted as "I draw three cards from the supply deck and decide not to buy any, I'll take shore leave instead."

Other stumbling blocks to this strategy:

1. You have to pay for your captain during shore leave, that's another $100 wasted.

2. If you are doing an immoral job, your moral crew gets a disgruntled token when it's completed. If you don't pay them as well, they immediately get a second token and quit!
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Jon Snow
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arrrh So far, after 4 solo plays and 4 multiplays, we play the rule as written; as it basically gives you an option in a hard 'Verse. Which means it ain't 'cheating' to do so. I imagine crews often get dismissed or not paid in the gritty Whedon world of independent commerce! However, I'll be interested to see if any rules changes or modifications here are made later on. Perhaps a Merc who won't take no for an answer will be introduced, for example...

And I agree that the another captain(s) present should have an option between the two original Captain's actions.

As for having to pay the captain himself during shore leave, that is also still controversial, say what you will (see Disgruntled Crew type threads, on which I vote no). You can follow 'the spirit of the game' in interpreting the rules where they are not clear also.
 
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Marek Adrian
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robertg611 wrote:


I don't think you can buy fuel or parts during Shore Leave either. See top of page 9 under Buy Actions.

Taking a Buy Action allows you to purchase Supply Cards and restock Fuel and Parts. Alternatively, you can use your Action for Shore Leave.



You are right. Sorry, I missed that part.
 
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Jeff Carlson
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taschu wrote:
robertg611 wrote:


I don't think you can buy fuel or parts during Shore Leave either. See top of page 9 under Buy Actions.

Taking a Buy Action allows you to purchase Supply Cards and restock Fuel and Parts. Alternatively, you can use your Action for Shore Leave.



You are right. Sorry, I missed that part.


However, then there is text as to what "Shore Leave" is on page 10. "When your Firefly is in a Sector with a Supply Planet, you may use your
buy Action to give your Crew Shore Leave, instead of buying Supply
Cards. Pay the bank $100 for each Crew, Disgruntled or not, then remove
all Disgruntled tokens."

Then on page 9, it says "When taking a Buy Action at a Supply Planet, you may also buy Fuel for $100 each and Parts for $300 each, in addition to buying Supply Cards."

Since it says "instead of buying Supply Cards", I read this that you are giving up the opportunity to buy Supply Cards. However, you are still taking a Buy action (otherwise you could take another Buy action on the same turn), and that means you can pick up fuel and parts.
 
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Giacomo Peroni
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In the solo game you can of course disgruntle all your crew and then send them on Shore Leave, but just because you have all 4 actions in a turn.
In a multi player game, doing that costs you one precious action: you'll have to do a Buy just to do a Shore Leave instead of a Fly action, for example...
 
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Heidi Stewart
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JRedGiant1 wrote:

However, then there is text as to what "Shore Leave" is on page 10. "When your Firefly is in a Sector with a Supply Planet, you may use your
buy Action to give your Crew Shore Leave, instead of buying Supply
Cards. Pay the bank $100 for each Crew, Disgruntled or not, then remove
all Disgruntled tokens."

Then on page 9, it says "When taking a Buy Action at a Supply Planet, you may also buy Fuel for $100 each and Parts for $300 each, in addition to buying Supply Cards."

Since it says "instead of buying Supply Cards", I read this that you are giving up the opportunity to buy Supply Cards. However, you are still taking a Buy action (otherwise you could take another Buy action on the same turn), and that means you can pick up fuel and parts.


We play it differently. Since it says "you may also buy Fuel for $100 each and Parts for $300 each, in addition to buying Supply Cards" and you are giving up buying Supply Cards when you give your crew Shore Leave, we rule that you can only buy fuel and parts when you take a buy action to shop.

And really, through shore leave, you are giving everyone money to go enjoy themselves. They wouldn't spend their time buying supplies for the ship. So it makes sense for fuel and parts to be another action. That's how we think of it, anyway.
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Muttley
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Another reason that this is rule is ok, is the player that continues to have disgrunted crew will occasionally have a valueable crew member stolen away from them, by another ship in the same sector. The stealer doesn't have to pay the hiring cost and the disgruntled marker leaves. It's not easy to juggle this feature without putting some of your crew in jeopardy.

Sorry, I just discovered that you do have to pay for that stolen crew, however if you get to steal River Tam then why not!
 
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Stephen Williams
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Edelas wrote:
I think, it's possibly to find veeeery easy job with payment that is not enough to satisfy even crew payment expectations. What will you do in such case? I think, it would be logical to decide, how to distribute money, and choose, who will get Disgruntled tokens.


Naturally, as your crew grows in quality and quantity you will reach a point where the easy jobs just don't pay enough. That's when you stop talking to Harken and start leaning toward Niska. =P

Or you can short-change some of your crew and leave them disgruntled, of course.

Edelas wrote:

Ha. And question #2) In theory, you can finish your job with Work Action, take all the money (leave all crew without their cuts), place Disgruntled tokens at all of them and in this turn, as a second action, use Buy Action to make a Shore Leave for all of them and remove all Disgruntled tokens. I think it would be cheaper. What can prevent player from acting like this every time? If he act like this in one turn, without break, other players cannot use this moment to come and buy Disgruntled crew.


Perfectly legal option, as long as the player remembers that:
a) He has to pay shore leave for ALL of his crew (captain included), whether they are disgruntled or not.
b) He can only do this on a supply planet, as others have said.
c) Other captains can hire away his disgruntled crew in between the two actions - that option is "at any time" as long as both Fireflies are in the same sector.

It may be cheaper, money-wise, but it does cost an extra action as others have said. That's nothing to shake a stick at. And if the job ends somewhere other than a supply planet, the player will need to spend even more actions traveling to the nearest supply planet (which is a waste if he wasn't headed that way already.)
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Joel Tamburo
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Yes the rules are fuzzy in many places chiefly due to the writers trying to be conversational in them, but here it is pretty clear. If you use a Buy action for Shore Leave that is all that is happening. And the Captain is part of the "crew" so he goes too.
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Mr. Octavius
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deimo62 wrote:
Another reason that this is rule is ok, is the player that continues to have disgrunted crew will occasionally have a valueable crew member stolen away from them, by another ship in the same sector. The stealer doesn't have to pay the hiring cost and the disgruntled marker leaves. It's not easy to juggle this feature without putting some of your crew in jeopardy.

Sorry, I just discovered that you do have to pay for that stolen crew, however if you get to steal River Tam then why not!


But there is no reason to put a token on $0 cost crew (River tam, hill folk) when you can pay them their cut (of $0) but not pay your more expensive crew.

The cost of an action, as well as needing to get to a supply planet without your crew getting stolen, should balance this out.
 
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