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Subject: CopyCat and Passing the last ice on a server rss

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Ony Moose
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Do we have precise English wording for CopyCat?

If you pass the last ice protecting a server, and want to use CopyCat to jump to a different server (lets say singleton IceWall on R&D -> Icewall on remote) does Caprice Nisei / Awakening Center on the server first ran on (R&D) still trigger after the runner has moved elsewhere with CopyCat?

Both CopyCat and Caprice Nisei trigger on passing the ice, and so it would seem the runner's effects would go first (move the run to elsewhere) but would the corp's effect still happen?

You still passed the last ice protecting the server that Caprice Nisei was on, so its trigger condition was met. Presumably you would still play the Psi game and ETR if you lost, but carry on from the new server if you won.
 
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Kevin Jones
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Kandiru wrote:
Do we have precise English wording for CopyCat?

If you pass the last ice protecting a server, and want to use CopyCat to jump to a different server (lets say singleton IceWall on R&D -> Icewall on remote) does Caprice Nisei / Awakening Center on the server first ran on (R&D) still trigger after the runner has moved elsewhere with CopyCat?

Both CopyCat and Caprice Nisei trigger on passing the ice, and so it would seem the runner's effects would go first (move the run to elsewhere) but would the corp's effect still happen?

You still passed the last ice protecting the server that Caprice Nisei was on, so its trigger condition was met. Presumably you would still play the Psi game and ETR if you lost, but carry on from the new server if you won.
Copycat triggers before Nisei does because Caprice hits more when/after the runner tries to access, while Copycat activates the instant the last ICE is passed.
 
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Ony Moose
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Caprice trigger on passing the last ice protecting the server, just like Awakening Center.
 
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Jure Volarevic
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I would say no. If they have the same trigger than the runner would resolve his effect first. The moment they use Copycat to jump into another server Caprice's trigger is no longer active (since the runner is now in another server.
 
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Kandiru wrote:
Caprice trigger on passing the last ice protecting the server, just like Awakening Center.


You're right, but I think this is going to come out the same way that bypass + on-encounter effects. They're all triggered simultaneously, but once the Runner's effect changes the state (from encountering to bypassing or from past last piece of ice to approaching some other piece of ice), the Corp's effects fizzle.
 
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Brain Less
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on another note, what an awesome and fun card! I put one in my Kate SMC clone chip deck and was able to tutor for it on the run. The corp had 3 draco installed as last ice. Ran on the cheap server then switched to the most protected one Too bad it was not an agenda, but only Howard Jackson.
 
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Ony Moose
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DrTall wrote:
Kandiru wrote:
Caprice trigger on passing the last ice protecting the server, just like Awakening Center.


You're right, but I think this is going to come out the same way that bypass + on-encounter effects. They're all triggered simultaneously, but once the Runner's effect changes the state (from encountering to bypassing or from past last piece of ice to approaching some other piece of ice), the Corp's effects fizzle.

Bypass's rule in the FAQ specifically says it prevents any effects which met their trigger condition on encountering the ice from resolving. Is that specific to bypass, or more generally applicable to anything which changes the game's state? Installing something off PW at the start of your turn doesn't change the state enough to make your other start of turn effects no longer "at the start of your turn."
 
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Ben Finkel
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Kandiru wrote:
Do we have precise English wording for CopyCat?


"Whenever you pass a piece of ice, you may trash Copycat. If you do, choose another rezzed copy of that piece of ice protecting any server. The run continues as if you had just passed the chosen piece of ice (you are now running from this new position)."

Quote:
If you pass the last ice protecting a server, and want to use CopyCat to jump to a different server (lets say singleton IceWall on R&D -> Icewall on remote) does Caprice Nisei / Awakening Center on the server first ran on (R&D) still trigger after the runner has moved elsewhere with CopyCat?

Both CopyCat and Caprice Nisei trigger on passing the ice, and so it would seem the runner's effects would go first (move the run to elsewhere) but would the corp's effect still happen?

You still passed the last ice protecting the server that Caprice Nisei was on, so its trigger condition was met. Presumably you would still play the Psi game and ETR if you lost, but carry on from the new server if you won.


That is my assumption as well. Good reasoning. We'll see if it holds, or if run deflection also kills pending triggers.
 
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Brodie
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Azeltir wrote:
"Whenever you pass a piece of ice, you may trash Copycat. If you do, choose another rezzed copy of that piece of ice protecting any server. The run continues as if you had just passed the chosen piece of ice (you are now running from this new position)."


This leads me to suspect Nisei will fizzle; the Runner is no longer running on "this [Nisei's] server."
 
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Kandiru wrote:
Installing something off PW at the start of your turn doesn't change the state enough to make your other start of turn effects no longer "at the start of your turn."


Specifically I meant the part of the game state that satisfies the trigger condition. Installing off PW doesn't make it not the start of your turn. If you had an effect that says "When your turn begins, end your turn." I would think that would cause other "at the start of your turn" effects to fizzle.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Agent Archer wrote:
Azeltir wrote:
"Whenever you pass a piece of ice, you may trash Copycat. If you do, choose another rezzed copy of that piece of ice protecting any server. The run continues as if you had just passed the chosen piece of ice (you are now running from this new position)."


This leads me to suspect Nisei will fizzle; the Runner is no longer running on "this [Nisei's] server."


However, Caprice Nisei was "listening" when the runner passed the last piece of ICE "protecting this server", so unless we get a clarification of run deflection like we have for ICE bypassing, she still fires even if the context has changed. So far, we have three reasons to kill a pending trigger: the run ends, a piece of ICE is bypassed, or the game ends.
 
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Brodie
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Azeltir wrote:
However, Caprice Nisei was "listening" when the runner passed the last piece of ICE "protecting this server", so unless we get a clarification of run deflection like we have for ICE bypassing, she still fires even if the context has changed. So far, we have three reasons to kill a pending trigger: the run ends, a piece of ICE is bypassed, or the game ends.


Yes - by my comments, I meant that I anticipate we'll get that clarification (eventually). I agree that by the wording of the card currently, Nisei will still fire, but I expect that's not how the cards are intended to interact.
 
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Sohum Banerjea
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Quote:
Hey Lukas!

This is basically a question about what stops conditional abilities from triggering. We know the card becoming inactive does, but does the trigger condition going away due to another ability generally stop it as well?

For instance, suppose I'm running Copycat, and running on a server that's Ice Wall -> Awakening Center with something hosted on it. When I pass the Ice Wall, the AC's condition is met. But if I trigger the Copycat to move to a different server, does the AC still happen and do I still have to encounter whatever bioroid is on it?

Similarly, what if there's Caprice Nisei? Does she still get to play the psi game even if I've copycatted to a different server?

Thanks!


Lukas Litzinger wrote:
Thanks for the question. The ability on Copycat would resolve first, and since you are no longer fulfilling the condition for Awakening Center it does not resolve.
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