Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
47 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Strategy

Subject: The Dominion Are Turrible rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
. .

California
msg tools
Avatar
With all the whining about scale and LE ships, I figured I'd start my own whining thread. The Dominion suck as everyone already knows. But why do they suck at their own war?

As an aside, this may or may not belong in the strategy section. Gotta learn the weaknesses before you can make them good. I also don't want to hear about how the Krayton will make them good. That's still a month away, and I fail to see how one expansion can shore up so many holes they have.

In an actual order...

1. They're a Ship Behind

The Dominion lack one less ship and cards then everyone else already putting them at a disadvantage. Sure, the stuff they would have gotten probably would have been turrible, but at least it would have given them options. And who knows? Maybe one or two of them would have been useful.

2. No Synergy

This would have been the number 1 reason if they actually had the same amount of ships as everyone else. The Dominion just don't seem to get along with the other races in their factions. Instead of saying "only on a specific-Dominion ship" their cards should say, "only on a Dominion ship" or "+5 on a non-Dominion ship." But it doesn't. Because of that it limits your options even further and you are basically playing three factions in one, segmenting you. And their cards just don't seem to work well together.

3. Blank Captains

Cheap captains wouldn't be so bad if you wanted to field more ships. However, the Dominion's captains don't do anything. They don't have high initiative, can't use talents, and don't have abilities.

They must be used with other cards. While a two-card combo can be nice, the fact that making stuff cheaper or being reactive and preventing a discard/disable is not good. You need to be proactive to be good or boost an attack. Speaking of which...

4. Low Attack

There's a huge thread about how primary weapons are better than agility. It is. But when two of your three ships have a paltry three attack, it's not going to do much. Unlike a bunch of other ships, captains, and crew, the Dominion can't boost their attack.

You do have greater access to secondary weapons, but everyone knows those suck. That's why you don't see them. Of course, playing Dominion you do oddly have a lot of slots for secondary weapons.

5. One Crew or Tech Slot

Crew, tech, and talent are ways you can shore up some holes in your fleet, but the fact that you're only limited to one, it better be good. Odds are it may be out of faction. Either way, it's not really helping you because nothing's that good or it's expensive for you. But at least you have lots and lots of pointless and expensive weapons.

6. No Specialty

While in life, it's better to be good at many things, in games, it's better to be good at one thing. I can tell you what the other three factions are good at. I can't tell you what the Dominion are good at.

The one thing they should be good at is detecting cloaked ships. But they're not even good at that. I mean, they are good at dying and that's in line with the show, but there's not cloning or building ships here.

Victory may be life, but it's a short life for the Dominion in this game.

[/rant]
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cromer

Florida
msg tools
mb
All I can really say is ditto. Especially in terms of number 2. I really do hope though that with the addition of the wave 2 cardi ship and the (I think wave 3?) dominion battleship that the whole will be better filled. There's little that can be done through new expansions however to help with the synergy issue. I will never understand why jem'hadar crew can't serve on non jem'hadar dominion ships or why an energy dissipator or a polaron beam can't be on any dominion ship when in the show they specifically stated that they were being installed on all the dominion, breen and cardi ships in the do inion fleet. It's just so frustrating because I like the Dominion and really want to play them. Unfortunately it just directly conflicts with my desire to win...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan M D Thomas
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Deusface wrote:
With all the whining about scale and LE ships, I figured I'd start my own whining thread. The Dominion suck as everyone already knows. But why do they suck at their own war?

As an aside, this may or may not belong in the strategy section. Gotta learn the weaknesses before you can make them good. I also don't want to hear about how the Krayton will make them good. That's still a month away, and I fail to see how one expansion can shore up so many holes they have.

In an actual order...


The Dominion does not suck. Are they the weakest faction right now: definitely. Can I win with their ships and upgrades currently: absolutely.

Also, I doubt the Ferengi would join the Dominion, nor would a D'Kora (Krayton) help them out much. Now they Koranak, a big cloaking ship, will most certainly help out the dominion in OP's 4, 5 and 6.

Deusface wrote:

1. They're a Ship Behind

The Dominion lack one less ship and cards then everyone else already putting them at a disadvantage. Sure, the stuff they would have gotten probably would have been turrible, but at least it would have given them options. And who knows? Maybe one or two of them would have been useful.


I'll give you this one. They really should have made a 4 ship starter with the Dominion Battlecruiser: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/factfiles/jemmie-war.... The Battlecruiser would have gave the dominion instant punch as it should be a 28 point ship like the enterprise-D and Mah'Ta. The fact that we won't see the battlecruiser for likely a year at the soonest saddens me as some who would like to play the Dominion.

The Kraxon was a nice ship, but they really should have dropped the Jem'Hadar battleship in Wave 0 and saved the Breen ship for later to give the Dominion more punch from day 1. Having a beefy 5 attack ship would make a world of difference for the Dominion.

Deusface wrote:

2. No Synergy

This would have been the number 1 reason if they actually had the same amount of ships as everyone else. The Dominion just don't seem to get along with the other races in their factions. Instead of saying "only on a specific-Dominion ship" their cards should say, "only on a Dominion ship" or "+5 on a non-Dominion ship." But it doesn't. Because of that it limits your options even further and you are basically playing three factions in one, segmenting you. And their cards just don't seem to work well together.


The 'melting pot' is the best and worst thing about the Dominion, but is also indicative of their screen appearances to a point. It was Cardassians as Dominion, Breen as Dominion, etc. Now that said, all upgrades should work better between the dominion. Why wouldn't the Cardassians and breen have access to Phased Poloron technology? The Jem'Hadar were definitely equipped with energy dissipators and the Cardassians may have also been in touch with the technology. Keeping the Jem'Hadar crew only on Jem'Hadar ships seems completely silly.

We'll ultimately have to wait for the final 2 releases and OP5 prize to see just how much synergy the Dominion has. It would only take 1 Gowron style card to really change the way those ships work together.

Deusface wrote:

3. Blank Captains

Cheap captains wouldn't be so bad if you wanted to field more ships. However, the Dominion's captains don't do anything. They don't have high initiative, can't use talents, and don't have abilities.

They must be used with other cards. While a two-card combo can be nice, the fact that making stuff cheaper or being reactive and preventing a discard/disable is not good. You need to be proactive to be good or boost an attack. Speaking of which...


Weyoun is one of those Captains that will get better and better as the game progresses and more cards are released. He's a combo captain. Sar and Lauran are also decent options.

The Dominion lacks a 'face' captain however, but they will most certainly get some in the future. Thot Pran, Gul Dukat, Gul Damar, Female changeling, and Enebrain Tain are all possible in the upcoming 3 ships. Dukat will be a 8-9 skill 'Picard' for the Dominion. Thot Pran as head of the Breen should be a 6-7 skill with a very offensive ability. The female founder will likely be a 6 and have some kind of group buff. All the best Dominion Captains are still out there. They can't all be Picard and Donatra.

Deusface wrote:

4. Low Attack

There's a huge thread about how primary weapons are better than agility. It is. But when two of your three ships have a paltry three attack, it's not going to do much. Unlike a bunch of other ships, captains, and crew, the Dominion can't boost their attack.

You do have greater access to secondary weapons, but everyone knows those suck. That's why you don't see them. Of course, playing Dominion you do oddly have a lot of slots for secondary weapons.


The Galors actually throw out a decent amount of firepower with that wide arc. Much better in practice that they seem. The other 2 ships...they are mainly hampered by cloaking. If cloaking ever lessens, and Andrew seems confident it will, them they would become more useful. Cloaking is the only thing keeping the energy dissipator from being a thing.

Also, The Koranark will have 4 attack and possibly 5 and the battleship will definitely have 5 attack. To big units are on the way for the Dominion and yes, they will make a difference day 1 when they arrive.

Deusface wrote:

5. One Crew or Tech Slot

Crew, tech, and talent are ways you can shore up some holes in your fleet, but the fact that you're only limited to one, it better be good. Odds are it may be out of faction. Either way, it's not really helping you because nothing's that good or it's expensive for you. But at least you have lots and lots of pointless and expensive weapons.


Yeah I do with we had more options here. I really hope the Rav Laerst gets a tech and/or extra crew slot just to open up more possibilities. The Kraxon does get double tech slots which is possibly nice somewhere,

Deusface wrote:

6. No Specialty

While in life, it's better to be good at many things, in games, it's better to be good at one thing. I can tell you what the other three factions are good at. I can't tell you what the Dominion are good at.

The one thing they should be good at is detecting cloaked ships. But they're not even good at that. I mean, they are good at dying and that's in line with the show, but there's not cloning or building ships here.

Victory may be life, but it's a short life for the Dominion in this game.

[/rant]


With so many races, it would be had to flesh out IMO. I feel they will get more synergy as they go, but lets be honest, all their ships look completely different thus far where all the other races have similar looking fleets. Omet'Iklan will be much better when there is another ship to play with. The dissipator will be better with a high level captain and 2 named breen cruisers.

The Dominion started slow, but they may well end up the strongest or second strongest once they are fully fleshed out.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
They suck, their ships suck, crap crew, lowest captains, weakest secondaries. Anyone who says they don't either don't play then even close to pure or play against them and don't want to admit their easy win.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan M D Thomas
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
They suck, their ships suck, crap crew, lowest captains, weakest secondaries. Anyone who says they don't either don't play then even close to pure or play against them and don't want to admit their easy win.


The Kraxon is one of the better ships in the game and the Galor is a stout ship (until you have to turn, lol). Suck it most certainly does not.

Omet'Iklan is like an elite attack dice and Sar is a great support crew. Neither of these suck.

Energy dissipator is the 'strongest' secondary if you can connect with it. Phased Polarons would be decent if people actually ran shields. They aren't the best for the current meta, but neither suck either.

Captains...Sar is nice and Weyoun has combos, but luckily an officer exchange program exists.

I've played the Dominion as much or more than any other faction. I like the Cardassians and Jem'Hadar from DS9. I never claimed I play them pure, but I win with their ships, either by them selves or in combination with the Romulans usually. I never play any games pure though; I even have all my cards intermingled and ignore factions as I build. Who seriously plays the game faction pure unless their playgroup forces them? That is a silly notion and the game was not designed to be played that way.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C LG
msg tools
mb
They can still win, but it's a tough go. The Kraxon is underestimated, but you shouldn't be playing this stuff faction pure at this point.

Like I said in a recent blog post, these silly faction pure restrictions completely hose the Dominion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erin OConnor
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
What is your favorite color?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Revisit this thread when the Koranak comes out.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keldon_class
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Yes, using the only half decent ship they have with no Dominion crew and no Dominion weapons, yea they can win, but this does not make the Dominion good.

Breen Ship should have had 2 attack 3 defense to make it unique and to make it worth while to buy secondaries, and the Dominion Torps should have had a turn 1 BattleStation result into a hit. the Energy D should be 4 dice. Weyoun should have had a talent. And they need 1 dice booster.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B.
United States
East Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Kraxon is really, really good, especially with a captain like Sar and an upgrade like Sulu or Data.

If you are playing faction pure, woooo, yea, Dominion have it rough right now. Their lack of synergy and quality crew is certainly their big problem. If I were to run pure Dominion right now and costs were no expensive I'd fly:


Kraxon
Cardassian Warship x3


Keep them in a tight, tight formation, using that 4-die and 180 arc to as much effect as you can. Any and all defensive uprades you can get on the Kraxon would be appreciated, since you want to make it a less tempting target, but really the Dominion don't have much in-faction that fits that bill.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Romer
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Echo2Omega wrote:
Revisit this thread when the Koranak comes out.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keldon_class


Agreed. I'm eagerly anticipating the Koranak. I think when it comes out it could be a game changer. The thing is the Dominion has no heavy hitter, but it also has no really weak ship like the miranda class, d7, science vessel, or romulan b.o.p. Once this ship hits there will be a bunch of interesting combos. If the stats live up to expectation I expect I'll buy two and immediately start fielding dominion fleets. The others ships make great secondary ships.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evan
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, the Kraxon is an extremely solid workhorse whose ability is tantamount to a multi-use Cheat Death.

And the Dominion's secondary weapons are great; they're a little tricky to use, but I'd take them over the Klingons' any day. (Torpedoes are probably where they're weakest compared to their TNG/DS9 era counterparts, but giving them a damage boost in addition to their range flexibility would be ridiculous.)

Their captains have low numbers, true, but very good abilities for the cost. If you're the sort who thinks that there's nothing more to the game than Picard/Martok/Donatra Klingon dice storms, I can see how the Dominion would seem to be lacking, but even from that narrow perspective, there's nothing wrong with them that won't be corrected very soon.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Thorpe
United Kingdom
Leeds
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have to agree at the moment that the Dominion are missing a few cards at the moment in order to make them playable as a viable pure faction.

I am truly hoping that the next 2 ships and card sets rectify this (together with the Dominion Promo) but until then I've been trying to think of ways to make them playable that have a foundation based on the shows.

Towards this end I've drafted up an Alternative Dominion ship:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1067126/alternative-domi...

The Naprem Klingon Bird-of-Prey that Dukat captured and was last seen flying back to Cardassia with the Dominion's ships at the start of their alliance.

In addition I have used limited cross-faction personnel by allowing the Dominion to make use of any Captain or Crew who was impersonated by a Founder Infiltrator.

At present this includes: Martok, Kira Nerys and Miles O'Brian.

This gives the Dominion access to a high level Captain and a method of repairing shields.

Hopefully this measure won't be needed once the new ships come out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erin OConnor
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
What is your favorite color?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LoneWolfPR wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
Revisit this thread when the Koranak comes out.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keldon_class


Agreed. I'm eagerly anticipating the Koranak. I think when it comes out it could be a game changer. The thing is the Dominion has no heavy hitter, but it also has no really weak ship like the miranda class, d7, science vessel, or romulan b.o.p. Once this ship hits there will be a bunch of interesting combos. If the stats live up to expectation I expect I'll buy two and immediately start fielding dominion fleets. The others ships make great secondary ships.


Agreed.
According to the wiki thing the ship will have cloaking (or a card that allows cloaking like the defiant.)
It also states that is had superior armaments to the Kraxon-classed ships so I would expect a 4 (maybe a 5?) attack die for it.

Andrew also left a bread crumb that the captain will not disappoint. Should have a 8 or 9 skill cappy coming.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
charles skrobis
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh boy, now for more need to defend the dominion as they are now.

First off being a ship behind does hurt, and the fact that they seem to stop at wave 3 because wave 4 switches over to federation, borg, kazon, and species 8472. Wish for more, but I play with the cards I'm dealt.

As for synergy. Synergy isn't always something given to you, sometimes synergy is something you have to create. If we flip it around and look at other random examples, playing an army of all riflemen, or melee fighters, or snipers, or the all vehicle force is great. But in most games it's actually a lot better to mix things to be prepared for all possibilities. So why not create synergy by planning out each part, like having galor classes with anti-proton scans, and the Gor Portos with the breen aid to energy dissipator to force them to cloak or lose their shields to give the Galors their full bonuses and such. It really depends how you want to play them, and what your play style is like. I like to look at the builds relying on gowron and donatra, know that they won't do anything to lose their formation and all the bonuses it provides, and then hard turn to it side, and force turning maneuvers every which way, because they collide with themselves so often it's funny.

As far as the captains not being high skill or having elite talents, that doesn't make them worthless. Sar is actually one of the better captains in the game, to the point where at one store, I see him more then any other captain. Gul Danar is great for making attacks more successful, Luran is a free skill 3 captain, Weyoun is for combos, and so on. They all have value and are even better if you can plan out exactly where and how they're to be used in each battle.

The low attack is a bit of a problem, but then they also received a lot of the better and cheaper attack "fixers". The breen aid is one of the better scan effects in the game for 2 points, Gul Danar helps with blanks a lot, Ometi'klan, the battle stations on the jem'haddar ship, etc. So they might not have 6 attack dice like the klingons can ramp up to right now, but they can take a less expensive ship, and make it do 3 damage per shot, if not 1 more at ranged 1, and make its damage keep up with the klingons, and this is before you fire a photon which can out damage them potentially. Again, comes to planning out your builds.

As for only being able to use a few crew or tech, how manly do you really need. The only ships that exist with more then 1 tech slot are the kraxon, and the praetus. So i fail to see where having as many if not more tech slots then everyone else is limiting or a flaw. If anything i feel great that it's not the federation with 1 tech slot on 1 ship in the game so far.

As for crew, the dominion isn't the federation. They don't have ships designed to hold all the crew, and if they did, then it would still turn into how best case the federation or romulan or klingon player chooses 1 or 2 of the best crew for a ship that can use them consistently. We have no piccard or martok for free actions. You won't need more then 1 per turn, and arguing Ometi'klan is to argue we have more passive crew then any other faction. Why do you need more then 1 crew when there are all of 5 dominion crew options right now, and 3 of them are jem'haddar only. The current jem'haddar is just a fighter craft, so wait for the battle cruiser, and the cardassian ship has 2 tech slots, and comes with a great anti-cloaking tech. The Gor Portas is ment to hold its target lock and cycle secondary weapons while scanning for the breen aid. How much more could you want without grabbing stuff from out of faction.

As for a specialty, I'm not sure I want a faction with a specialty. First and foremost a specialty amounts to nothing more then min/maxing bait. It go back to the riflemen thing, if all it did was shoot at long ranged and was terrible at close, everyone would run at it. Sometimes it's better to mix, and leave your opponent guessing at what you're going to do. The rest is how you build for it, cause running 3 breen ships with energy dissipators right now is pretty specialized at hating the federation for not having a cloak, while 3 galor class with anti-proton scans is specialized at hating cloaking. So it's not that you need them to play one way and only one way at a glance, so much as manipulating what you have to make it work the way you want it. It's like putting an anti-proton scan on a galor and an energy dissipator on a breen, so if they cloak you get bonuses, and if they don't you can give them a dampening token and still get bonuses, thus giving you more control of your opponent's decisions, and opening up wonderful options, before we even talk about running the breen up while the galors move slowly behind, and turn about the breen from behind, to make them fight a flanked battle on 2 sides.

All in all, the dominion isn't an easy faction to play, cause where as a klingon build can be put together in 10 seconds, the dominion need to have more of a plan, specific upgrades in place, captain skills lined up in the right order, etc. But if you can do all of that, you can start getting 3 wins in a row at tournaments.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
charles_skrobis wrote:
Oh boy, now for more need to defend the dominion as they are now.

First off being a ship behind does hurt, and the fact that they seem to stop at wave 3 because wave 4 switches over to federation, borg, kazon, and species 8472. Wish for more, but I play with the cards I'm dealt.

As for synergy. Synergy isn't always something given to you, sometimes synergy is something you have to create. If we flip it around and look at other random examples, playing an army of all riflemen, or melee fighters, or snipers, or the all vehicle force is great. But in most games it's actually a lot better to mix things to be prepared for all possibilities. So why not create synergy by planning out each part, like having galor classes with anti-proton scans, and the Gor Portos with the breen aid to energy dissipator to force them to cloak or lose their shields to give the Galors their full bonuses and such. It really depends how you want to play them, and what your play style is like. I like to look at the builds relying on gowron and donatra, know that they won't do anything to lose their formation and all the bonuses it provides, and then hard turn to it side, and force turning maneuvers every which way, because they collide with themselves so often it's funny.

As far as the captains not being high skill or having elite talents, that doesn't make them worthless. Sar is actually one of the better captains in the game, to the point where at one store, I see him more then any other captain. Gul Danar is great for making attacks more successful, Luran is a free skill 3 captain, Weyoun is for combos, and so on. They all have value and are even better if you can plan out exactly where and how they're to be used in each battle.

The low attack is a bit of a problem, but then they also received a lot of the better and cheaper attack "fixers". The breen aid is one of the better scan effects in the game for 2 points, Gul Danar helps with blanks a lot, Ometi'klan, the battle stations on the jem'haddar ship, etc. So they might not have 6 attack dice like the klingons can ramp up to right now, but they can take a less expensive ship, and make it do 3 damage per shot, if not 1 more at ranged 1, and make its damage keep up with the klingons, and this is before you fire a photon which can out damage them potentially. Again, comes to planning out your builds.

As for only being able to use a few crew or tech, how manly do you really need. The only ships that exist with more then 1 tech slot are the kraxon, and the praetus. So i fail to see where having as many if not more tech slots then everyone else is limiting or a flaw. If anything i feel great that it's not the federation with 1 tech slot on 1 ship in the game so far.

As for crew, the dominion isn't the federation. They don't have ships designed to hold all the crew, and if they did, then it would still turn into how best case the federation or romulan or klingon player chooses 1 or 2 of the best crew for a ship that can use them consistently. We have no piccard or martok for free actions. You won't need more then 1 per turn, and arguing Ometi'klan is to argue we have more passive crew then any other faction. Why do you need more then 1 crew when there are all of 5 dominion crew options right now, and 3 of them are jem'haddar only. The current jem'haddar is just a fighter craft, so wait for the battle cruiser, and the cardassian ship has 2 tech slots, and comes with a great anti-cloaking tech. The Gor Portas is ment to hold its target lock and cycle secondary weapons while scanning for the breen aid. How much more could you want without grabbing stuff from out of faction.

As for a specialty, I'm not sure I want a faction with a specialty. First and foremost a specialty amounts to nothing more then min/maxing bait. It go back to the riflemen thing, if all it did was shoot at long ranged and was terrible at close, everyone would run at it. Sometimes it's better to mix, and leave your opponent guessing at what you're going to do. The rest is how you build for it, cause running 3 breen ships with energy dissipators right now is pretty specialized at hating the federation for not having a cloak, while 3 galor class with anti-proton scans is specialized at hating cloaking. So it's not that you need them to play one way and only one way at a glance, so much as manipulating what you have to make it work the way you want it. It's like putting an anti-proton scan on a galor and an energy dissipator on a breen, so if they cloak you get bonuses, and if they don't you can give them a dampening token and still get bonuses, thus giving you more control of your opponent's decisions, and opening up wonderful options, before we even talk about running the breen up while the galors move slowly behind, and turn about the breen from behind, to make them fight a flanked battle on 2 sides.

All in all, the dominion isn't an easy faction to play, cause where as a klingon build can be put together in 10 seconds, the dominion need to have more of a plan, specific upgrades in place, captain skills lined up in the right order, etc. But if you can do all of that, you can start getting 3 wins in a row at tournaments.


and you still lose, Dominion suck....sorry
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
. .

California
msg tools
Avatar
I could have sworn that I didn't want to hear about how the Koranak will be good and end all of the Dominion troubles. Though I may have spelled it wrong and am too lazy to edit my original post.

Guys, guys, guys, you have got to stop believing the false hope and talking about how the Dominion and X ship or card will be good. You can't possibly know that and it's driving me crazy. Game companies, corporations, governments, sports teams, etc. all say the same thing. They'll talk about the future and how it will be good. And why they MAY happen, it'll take some time. And in either case, it does nothing for the present or the past. By the time the Dominion may get good, the Dominion War will be over. The opposite of how it went on the show.

Now, there are some cool stuff for the Dominion but they don't quite work out as expected. I feel as if they erred on the side of caution.

For example, the Energy Dissipator is a nice, unique weapon, but really three attack dice? It probably should have been four attack dice. Ometi'klan is also excellent in theory. However, he can't be used for secondary weapons and can only be used in the paper tissue Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. It's hard to boost his attack since it's Dominion and that can't be done without using precious actions as opposed to other factions that give it out for being in range or doing a green maneuver. The Phased Polaron Beam should be useful. It's garbage against cloaking and the Feds will often role two defense to your three attack. So you may do a damage or two. Five might be too high but four should be good. The Gor Portas probably should have four attack. But it seems like they neutered it to three because with the ED that would be five dice and that would probably one or two shot a ship. Even though that's hard to pull off and would take some time.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boardgame Geek
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

I plan on getting a respectable Dominion force going but only after the below ship is released.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Penguin Bonaparte
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MaximumDT wrote:

I plan on getting a respectable Dominion force going but only after the below ship is released.



This thing better have a cannon equipped that just hurls attack ships at the enemy if we want to fix the Dominion
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I saw a Dominion Fleet take 1st in the Month 1 event and 2nd in the Month 2 event. Granted they were not pure faction, but there is a severe limit on available options at the moment. They were hardly cheese over mixed fleets (no Picard, Martok or Donotra).

They are lacking compared to some fo the other factions, but they are still playable. It takes a lot more skill to play a Dominion fleet well, where almost anyone can pick up a Klingon or Romulan fleet and play an ok game their first time ever seeing the game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Kay
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
and you still lose, Dominion suck....sorry


If you don't like the Dominion, don't play them. It doesn't sound like you're having much fun with them, by the sound of it. You're entitled to an opinion, but someone just put so much effort into trying to explain the finer points of the Dominion to you and you wrote them off without acknowledging anything they said. It's hard for me to get behind your opinion when you do that.

The Dominion has flaws. So does every other faction. The Romulans can have a lot of trouble getting crucial attack dice, but have by far the most defense. The Klingons are glass cannons; they hit hard and you can fly without much effort, but without cloak they can't defend at all. The Federation have a lot of variety; their strength is in their versatile crew and high skill captains, which means their ships on their own don't stack up as well as some others.

It sounds like you've seen the Klingons fly tight formation jousting, which plays right into their strengths, and have tried and failed to re-create that with ships and upgrades that have some fundamental differences. So you post here repeatedly talking about how "bad" they are, but when you're presented with a thought-out, reasonable argument, your response is to shut it down with a one-sentence reply.

Could you share some turn-by-turn batreps instead, detailing how your games have gone playing as the Dominion? I'd love more insight into your approach, because I think it would help us to analyze your experiences with the Dominion more objectively.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
charles skrobis
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Deusface wrote:
I could have sworn that I didn't want to hear about how the Koranak will be good and end all of the Dominion troubles. Though I may have spelled it wrong and am too lazy to edit my original post.

Guys, guys, guys, you have got to stop believing the false hope and talking about how the Dominion and X ship or card will be good. You can't possibly know that and it's driving me crazy. Game companies, corporations, governments, sports teams, etc. all say the same thing. They'll talk about the future and how it will be good. And why they MAY happen, it'll take some time. And in either case, it does nothing for the present or the past. By the time the Dominion may get good, the Dominion War will be over. The opposite of how it went on the show.

Now, there are some cool stuff for the Dominion but they don't quite work out as expected. I feel as if they erred on the side of caution.

For example, the Energy Dissipator is a nice, unique weapon, but really three attack dice? It probably should have been four attack dice. Ometi'klan is also excellent in theory. However, he can't be used for secondary weapons and can only be used in the paper tissue Jem'Hadar Attack Ship. It's hard to boost his attack since it's Dominion and that can't be done without using precious actions as opposed to other factions that give it out for being in range or doing a green maneuver. The Phased Polaron Beam should be useful. It's garbage against cloaking and the Feds will often role two defense to your three attack. So you may do a damage or two. Five might be too high but four should be good. The Gor Portas probably should have four attack. But it seems like they neutered it to three because with the ED that would be five dice and that would probably one or two shot a ship. Even though that's hard to pull off and would take some time.



Let's go into some experiences I've had.

So almost a month back right when the 5th patrol attack wing came out I decided to do an experiment in fielding 4 of them.

5th Patrol attack wing
Sar
Ometi'klan

Jem'haddar attack ship
Luran
long ranged tachyon scan

Jem'haddar attack ship
Gul Danar
Long ranged tachyon scan

Jem'haddar attack ship
Generic Captain
Phased polaron beam

Now this was before the whole FAQ pointed out that the whole "-2 defense was for 1 ship" rather then the whole round, but I also got some bad calls from the judge on how mines worked, so the net damage about balanced out.

The first round was a fully loaded enterprise-d and fully loaded defiant build.

The second was a defiant, miranda, enterprise-d build.

And the third was a klingon attack squadron with a Maht'h-a, Kronos one, and a D7 that were heavily loaded.

The first match I lost by 2 points cause mines shouldn't get to roll again for leaving them, and 16 dice with no defense really hurts. The second I actually won pretty well by tearing apart the enterprise-d early, then to clarke trell on the miranda, but didn't get the defiant, while losing only half my ships. The last one was it's own mess but taught me the most.

Have you ever seen what happens when 3 klingon ships all collide with 3 jem'haddar ships so that they lose actions? The point at which the Maht'h-a died that round, quickly followed by the D7, meant a maneuvering battle took place for everything past that third turn, though the 2 ships I had left just couldn't seem to roll well enough to take it's last hull point before time was called.

As for what I'd change in hindsight and with the tachyon scan ruling.

Gul danar with battle station got 3 hits every turn, he needs nothing more at 22 points to keep up damage with a klingon attack ship.

Ometi'klan and Sar on the named jem'haddar ship do 3 maybe 4 hits per shot at ranged 2 or 3, I just need them to start further to the side cause with the hate they got, evade tokens with 3 defense felt better, and still net 3 damage every other turn, once again doing the same damage as a Klingon ship, but before it gets buffs.

Luran needs something better, likely going to be the breen aid, or maybe an anti-proton scan (which would take the 2 points from Gul Danar not taking a long ranged tachyon scan), but overall keep the damage decent.

generic captain, the other ships were doing enough damage that we'd get through the shields before needing a polaron beam ever, So probably something more crazy, not sure if trade the polaron beam for command tokens, or vira'kara to screw with crew because of how many federation players were at that event.

Why is each ship being analyzed individually? Because they have no reason to fly in formation.

The Jem'haddar ships have great maneuverability and i made full use of it when they started turning after the first round of shots. Definitely want to force turning earlier, and loved that they would turn their fleet at 1 or 2 ships, leaving the rest to act as freely as they wanted without fear of being shot at.

There are other ways to used dominion too, like I keep pointing out the 3 galor build someone won first with. It's not really about raw stats and buffs as much as planned out strategies, maneuvering, mind games, etc.

But enough said, I need to sure up my build a little bit, because soon I have an event coming, and I'm currently in first place at this closer event at a different store.

And I'm currently in first as team dominion, with the second place as the next person from team dominion.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Caputo
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Well besides loading up on a bunch of naked ships, which can be a winning combo for every faction or mixing 75% other factions into the Dominion. No one is saying you cant win with Dominion ships. I think the problem is this.

Ships: they all have average stats so far, and the least amount of natural actions. So a 3 attack is low you basically have to buy a secondary to keep up. so not only are you paying for the measly 3 but for the second weapon too. Also the special abilities of the ships either require other factions upgrades to be useful or are so situational that they are basically useless, and are inferior to all other faction ships. Lets take a look
Gor Portas - Its lockon ability basically puts it almost even with a empty Klingon ship, almost, it still has to lock disable its secondary, but could use the lock to reroll. Beyond that it just lets you shoot really crappy Dominion Torpedoes. and Breen does not have Battle stations

5th Wing - as an "ACTION" gain a +1 and -1 shield, the Reliant gets a natural +1 at close range he'll so does the Valor with a green, a far superior ability given the nature of these ships to be "in fighters" with there high maneuverability. So now you cant use the ability and take battle stations at the same time like the reliant can. plus you lose a shield

Kraxon - Absorb hits, great, but Dominion have no shield builders and since it works at range 1 you are most likely in range too, so you are pretty much just killing your Kraxon faster. And it turns like a cow, so the Ent-D with the 360 fire chews this thing apart.

So in the end you are spending way too points making things half decent, most of which other factions get for free.

There is no way you will ever convince anyone trying to pure build, using loaded ships that they are equal. So keep saying they are, while using their ships with other upgrade and crew and captains, or keep say they are while building naked math builds of 3-4 naked ships, but it still does not make the Dominion any good. Its not about winning or losing, its a comparison between what the Dominion have compared to the other factions, and they got the short end of the stick in every category.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan M D Thomas
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ryolacap wrote:
There is no way you will ever convince anyone trying to pure build, using loaded ships that they are equal.


You are using a fallacious argument here. You assume the masses are 'pure building' and for the most part they are not.

The Dominion are lacking as a faction, but The Romulans have no mid range ship, lower attack dice than other factions, and no high skill Captain, The Federation effectively have equal or worse ships to the Dominion and few toys with their lack of tech slots, even the Mighty Klingons have to rely on an officer exchange to build their ideal fleets and their ships give up defense for the mighty attack dice making them easier to kill.

I look at it like this: every faction has tools. The Dominion has some nice toys that play well with those from other factions and came make some strong components of fleets. Just because 100% Dominion is behind the other factions does not in any way mean that using a ship or two here or and upgrade or 3 there makes those pieces useless. I've won games with pieces from the Dominion, but it may take just a bit more thinking and maneuvering skill. Maybe you should try it sometime.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Kay
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The ships have less stats, which means they cost less and are more flexible to build for in a 100 point match.

The point I'm getting from this discussion is that Dominion attack buffs are about consistency: punching out 3 hits every round instead of a pool of 5 uncertain attack dice every round like a Klingon. Their crew are arguably the best at doing that, if specifically for them because they have scan and battle stations.

The special abilities are meant to force tactical decisions from an opponent. If I'm up against a build that includes the Gor Portas, the Kraxon, and the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship, I have a bit of a Catch-22.

If I take out the Kraxon first because it protects its allies, I'm probably not going to get the chance to destroy one of the other two this round. I'll have to de-cloak to fire, which means that I've opened myself up to Target Locks from Gor Portas. The next round is a tough decision for me. I can cloak, but then the Gor Portas could use Target Lock to make his Energy Dissipator hit very well, and one bad defense roll means I get disabled and hit with a solid four dice of hits from the 5th Wing Patrol Ship as a follow up attack. If I don't cloak, I could lose all my shields, which would take away half of the action bar on my ship and open me up to a torpedo volley from Gor Portas instead, which I can't even negate like regular torpedoes by flying too close.

If I don't take out the Kraxon, all of the ships have scan and tech or upgrades that makes them better at it, and I'm still probably not destroying a ship outright because of the Kraxon's ability, but now I've got three angry ships to fight instead of two.

You keep talking about "naked" ships winning all the time. Maybe that happens in your games, but I've found more ship numbers lose value after a point if you can't augment them with some upgrades. 4 ships seems to be the threshold after which you are simply not specialized enough, should your opponent be packing some serious combo power. Running four "naked" ships isn't the end-all, be-all of this game. It's just the easiest to build and fly. I don't need to think about anything except what's on my action bar and what my maneuvers are if I have four generic K'Tingas. Simple. But not always the best. If you want to run "naked" ships, you're not going to succeed right out the gate with Dominion ships because they don't quite cost as much.

As for building pure, you can do it if you want. I will never voluntarily set out to build a fleet that is faction pure if I am trying to play to win. I will put together what works the best for what I want to accomplish. If it's faction pure, then it just means I can play it with everyone, as opposed to those who feel their experience is ruined by mixed faction squad-building.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
charles skrobis
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
First I'd like to correct that part about the 5th patrol wing, it doesn't disable a shield, it gives up a defense die.

As For me, I did a test run or 2 last night, my final build will be.

5th Patrol WIng
Sar
Ometi'klan

Jem'haddar Attack Ship
Gul Danar

Jem'haddar Attack Ship
Luran
Breen Aid

Jem'haddar Attack Ship
Breen Aid

And Command tokens with +1 attack, Attack re-roll, scan, battle stations, and evade.

I tested this last night. Beat a named negh'var, generic negh'var, and a Maht'h-a, which had Gowron, Martok, and Chang.

Regret using the evade command token on Luran when she was basically going to die, Hate that the Direct hit was what killed Sar, and hey look I got 100 fleet points from destroying all the klingons while they got 51.

Lastly, if the arguement isn't about winning or losing so much as throwing big numbers at the problem, then why not play klingons or romulans?

The dominion isn't that bad, just completely non-linear.

Though that's kind of like that Romulan build I did once where it fired once every forth turn or so, but used 7 die plasma torpedoes when it did. That was a fun battle where cloak bonuses and sensor echoes made huge differences.

If you want to start seeing what I mean, just grab some random scenario like month 2. Rather then placing your ships lined up for the normal "jousting everyone excepts, put your ships at the opposite corners of the board at a 90 degree rotation from you opponent if not more. Then play the how well can people fly their ships game where the debris fields and minor directions start making huge differences, and people like Sar become needed with evade tokens more then any 5+ attack. (And trust me, no one ever sees flying down the side of your starting area coming until it happens.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.