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Subject: Input on my Romulan Build rss

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Paul Romer
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I usually wind up getting absolutely housed by the Klingons when I run Romulans. This is my attempt at rectifying that. I'm thinking about using this for OP 3 but it's not specifically designed for that. It's more of a general build. Bare in mind, at my location we have to pay a 1 point faction penalty if the upgrade doesn't match the ship AND if it doesn't match our declared faction for the event. So you're generally paying a +2 penalty for upgrades out of faction. It's rough, but really forces us to think about our builds.

I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Martok (5+2)
Tactical Officer (3)

I.R.W. Khazara (30)
Donatra (4)
All Forward Disruptor Banks (4)
Adv. Weapon Systems (5+2)

Romulan Science Vessel (12)
Generic Captain (0)
Cloaked Mines (3)

Total Cost: 100

My plan is to run the Valdore from a distance of 2 or 3 so I can keep making green maneuvers and getting the +1. I'll use target lock to take advantage of Tactical officer to really deal out damage.

The Khazara will run in front of the Valdore, but maintaining the distance to keep donatra useful. My plan is to use All forward Disruptors along with Martok on the Valdore to keep Adv. Weapon Systems active so I can stay cloaked while firing.

With that I should be firing with at least a 5 each time with the Valdore, and hopefully 6 most turns with lots of re-rolls. The Khazara should also fire at a 5 pretty much always, and a 6 if I can maintain attack range of 1 and be damn hard to hit.

The science vessel will be used simply to drop the cloaked mines, and stay cloaked. If need be I can fly it around outside of firing arcs and take potshots just to annoy the other player if need be.
 
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Erin OConnor
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Sorry, but that double penalty does nothing but hurt your options.
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Paul Romer
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Echo2Omega wrote:
Sorry, but that double penalty does nothing but hurt your options.


I think the idea was to really push faction pure builds to go along with the theme/story of the op series. So if you want to mix you really have to commit.

All that said, got any input on the build itself?
 
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Scott Kelly
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In this instance, I don't think Advanced Weapons System is worth anywhere close to 7 SP. You're dedicating 7 SP to hopefully gain 1 attack die per round. You can get roughly the same effect from N'vek cheaper.

I think the same is true for the original 5 SP Martok, which now costs you 7.
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Paul Romer
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drscottkelly wrote:
In this instance, I don't think Advanced Weapons System is worth anywhere close to 7 SP. You're dedicating 7 SP to hopefully gain 1 attack die per round. You can get roughly the same effect from N'vek cheaper.

I think the same is true for the original 5 SP Martok, which now costs you 7.


Well the idea is to get the additional attack die without having to decloak giving me 6 defense dice every turn without being able to be target locked because I had to recloak.
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Byron Grimes
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I did mix factions for OP3 because it was allowed. That said, I think you're better off bare bones running more ships.
Pure factions I would do
I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Valdore (3)

I.R.W. Khazara (30)
Donatra (4)

Valdore class (28)
Mirok(2)

And you could add either cloaked mines to the Khazara, or a tactical officer to any ship. Please note, you're looking at up to 8 attack dice on the Valdore if you move right. Mirok keeps one ship alive, and donatra boosts both. I ran very close to this build for OP2, and it is very nice. I had a generic cap instead of Valdore, and tactical officers on 2 ships.
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Erin OConnor
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Don't forget about Toreth. Being able to convert a hit to a crit can be really potent. (and really can cripple ships if you couple it with attack pattern omega....but then you are cross faction-ing again.)

Byron has a solid list there.

I get that they want to do 'pure faction' but for tournament purposes that's just...
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Will

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I just did OP3, and beat each of the other 3 factions with a Romulan force, although it was the Ridgeheads that did the most damage to me of the 3 due to the stacked effects of some of the captains. In OP3, you have the advantage. I suspect most players will figure out to ride the edge rather than going into a zone where you can be fired upon by up to 3 of those OWP at once. Go up the edge slowly while letting your opponent come to you. Throw out some cloaked mines so your opponent has to run into them and/or dance with an OWP. I fielded a good force for that scenario.


Science Vessel:
Romulan Captain
Cloaked Mines
15

Praetus:
Mirok (to handle the point of damage you might take by cloaking)
Cloaked Mines
19

D'Deridex:
Tomalak (no extra defense die at range 3)
Polarized Hull Plating
32

D'Deridex:
Donatra (friendly units within 1 get +1 attack die)
Polarized Hull Plating
34

The small ships are highly maneuverable, but the D'Deridex can go reverse straight 2 (red) & forward straight 2 (green) to keep the same facing. Fire when they back up so they can recloak when they go forward or stay cloaked until the hostiles turn around to get clear of the mines. The Polarized Hull Plating helped out with several critical that night. To top it all off, you don't need to desecrate a Romulan ship with a Klingon captain!
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Rusty Dice
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LoneWolfPR wrote:
drscottkelly wrote:
In this instance, I don't think Advanced Weapons System is worth anywhere close to 7 SP. You're dedicating 7 SP to hopefully gain 1 attack die per round. You can get roughly the same effect from N'vek cheaper.

I think the same is true for the original 5 SP Martok, which now costs you 7.


Well the idea is to get the additional attack die without having to decloak giving me 6 defense dice every turn without being able to be target locked because I had to recloak.


For 8 points you could take Picard and drop AWS and Donatra for a saving of 3 points. Use your normal action to re-cloak and use Picard to gain Battle Stations. I'd take BS over +1 die to another ship. Plus he provides more options overall and means you can split the ships up if/when needed.

 
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Paul Romer
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RustyDice wrote:
LoneWolfPR wrote:
drscottkelly wrote:
In this instance, I don't think Advanced Weapons System is worth anywhere close to 7 SP. You're dedicating 7 SP to hopefully gain 1 attack die per round. You can get roughly the same effect from N'vek cheaper.

I think the same is true for the original 5 SP Martok, which now costs you 7.


Well the idea is to get the additional attack die without having to decloak giving me 6 defense dice every turn without being able to be target locked because I had to recloak.


For 8 points you could take Picard and drop AWS and Donatra for a saving of 3 points. Use your normal action to re-cloak and use Picard to gain Battle Stations. I'd take BS over +1 die to another ship. Plus he provides more options overall and means you can split the ships up if/when needed.



The battlestations idea has me thinking for sure. I'll have to consider it. The thing about recloaking though is it leaves you able to be target locked. I'd like to prevent that if possible.
 
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Jusitn Smith
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For the OP event 2 I ran a very basic Romulan build that smashed all the other players. ( They all ran Klingons)

I.R.W. Valdore (Romulan 30)
Toreth (Romulan 4)
All Forward Disruptor Banks (Romulan 4)

Romulan Valdore (Romulan 28)
Nu'Daq (Klingon 4)

I.R.W. Praetus (Romulan 14)
Donatra (Romulan 4)
Cloaked Mines (Romulan 3)
Missile Launchers (Ferengi 4)


Elite Attack Die (5)
Total Point Cost: 100

Now this build does not use your stores +1 sp to non-factions. The idea and it worked is to fly the two Valdores out front stacking dice as I move with the Praetus supporting. Round two in a game the Praetus drops the Cloaked Mines out in front of the fleet to give me +1 to green dice and to do what Cloaked Mines do best. Missile Launchers where to fire if it got in range. ( They dont need target lock) then the Praetus would fly into ships to slow them up. ( I knew it would die fast) Hince the Mines. Donatra is nice but don't count on her.

The EAD is for Nu'Daq, making the EAD a free hit EVERY time.

And Toreth is just awesome to turn one hit into a crit.

My theory is to have no wasted actions, every card has a purpose. Even if for just one round. It needs to be worth SP.

My two sense..... whistle

PS practice your movement, helped me alot in month 2 for me. Every game i made the same moves and attacks.
 
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Erin OConnor
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I would either try to get some battle stations in there or the Tactical Officers. They give you a 3rd reroll when you spend a target lock. The only down side is that you need to get a target lock to take advantage of their ability.

Either option will really add some punch to your attacks.

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
Tactical officer 3
37

Valdore class 28
Romulan Captain 0
Tactical officer 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
32

100

Putting Donatra on the Khazara works. Its weak attack BUT it is a sturdy ship.

The catch is that your spending your actions re-cloaking rather than target locking.

You could also try something like:

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
34

Khazara class 28
Romulan captain 0
Cloaked mines 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
Cloaked mines 3
35

3 sturdy ships (low chance of losing one of you do take fire) + 2 cloaked mines. Not much attack but you would fly around your mined area and keep them at bay. OP3 you can pollute the planets 'orbit' with the mines and play ring around the planet. Hope they make mistakes with their driving and eat cloaked mines damage.
 
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Jusitn Smith
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Echo2Omega wrote:
I would either try to get some battle stations in there or the Tactical Officers. They give you a 3rd reroll when you spend a target lock. The only down side is that you need to get a target lock to take advantage of their ability.

Either option will really add some punch to your attacks.

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
Tactical officer 3
37

Valdore class 28
Romulan Captain 0
Tactical officer 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
32

100

Putting Donatra on the Khazara works. Its weak attack BUT it is a sturdy ship.

The catch is that your spending your actions re-cloaking rather than target locking.

You could also try something like:

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
34

Khazara class 28
Romulan captain 0
Cloaked mines 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
Cloaked mines 3
35

3 sturdy ships (low chance of losing one of you do take fire) + 2 cloaked mines. Not much attack but you would fly around your mined area and keep them at bay. OP3 you can pollute the planets 'orbit' with the mines and play ring around the planet. Hope they make mistakes with their driving and eat cloaked mines damage.


My issue with the Valdore and Khazara is they dont have good synergy together when it comes to movement. Valdores can do a comeabout and Khazaras do a 2 backwards. hard to keep them together when the SHTF.
 
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Paul Romer
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thorodin18 wrote:
Echo2Omega wrote:
I would either try to get some battle stations in there or the Tactical Officers. They give you a 3rd reroll when you spend a target lock. The only down side is that you need to get a target lock to take advantage of their ability.

Either option will really add some punch to your attacks.

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
Tactical officer 3
37

Valdore class 28
Romulan Captain 0
Tactical officer 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
32

100

Putting Donatra on the Khazara works. Its weak attack BUT it is a sturdy ship.

The catch is that your spending your actions re-cloaking rather than target locking.

You could also try something like:

Valdore 30
Toreth 4
34

Khazara class 28
Romulan captain 0
Cloaked mines 3
31

Khazara class 28
Donatra 4
Cloaked mines 3
35

3 sturdy ships (low chance of losing one of you do take fire) + 2 cloaked mines. Not much attack but you would fly around your mined area and keep them at bay. OP3 you can pollute the planets 'orbit' with the mines and play ring around the planet. Hope they make mistakes with their driving and eat cloaked mines damage.


My issue with the Valdore and Khazara is they dont have good synergy together when it comes to movement. Valdores can do a comeabout and Khazaras do a 2 backwards. hard to keep them together when the SHTF.


I had been thinking about his as well. The upside I can see is you can throw the d'deridex back 2 and do a come about with the valdore locking your opponent into a crossfire forcing them to split up a formation or get beat up by one ship they'll have trouble hitting.
 
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Kenn Mikos
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Your fleet is similar in concept to my OP2 fleet, which went 3-0 against all Klingon opponents. Our venue is faction pure also, though Independents are allowed in any fleet.

Quote:
Romulan Valdore (Romulan 30)
Donatra (Romulan 4)
Tactical Officer (Romulan 3)

I.R.W. Valdore (Romulan 28)
Toreth (Romulan 4)
Tactical Officer (Romulan 3)
Joachim (Independent 4+1)

R.I.S. Apnex (Romulan 14)
Romulan Captain (Romulan 0)
Cloaked Mines (Romulan 3)


Command Tokens (5)
Total Point Cost: 99


In your OP, it would be a 100 point fleet due to Joachim, but you could try arguing that the Independents shouldn't have to pay the additional penalty since they don't have a ship in faction to be placed on...

Obviously the heavy hitter is the IRW Valdore. Making a Green maneuver every turn, Toreth will roll 6 attack dice with 2 re-rolls. If you can get to Range 1, it's 7. You're pretty much guaranteed 5-6 hits before evades every time she fires, as long as you wait until she has a Target Lock. Plus one of those is guaranteed to be a crit due to her ability. Then Joachim allows you to choose which damage card gets applied. At the worst, he's worthwhile for allowing you to discard cards that would have no effect, like "Munitions Failure" on a ship with no Weapon upgrades. In many instances though, he'll let you pile on additional damage. I was able to one-shot a cloaked Negh'var that way; I had 4 crits + 1 damage go through after evades, and by filtering through 8 damage cards with Joachim, was able to find the "Direct Hit" I needed to finish him off.

Donatra's there both to buff Toreth, and to act as the clean-up for those times when Toreth doesn't finish off the target by herself. That's why she gets a Tactical Officer too. Often some of the beefier ships will survive Toreth's first attack, but I've never had a ship survive both.

"But wait," you're saying, "that only works if you can have a Target Lock! What about those cloaked Klingons?" Well, it's true. You'll need to let them fire first, which can be a bit unnerving when you're facing a Klingon Alpha Strike fleet. For what it's worth, without a target lock and you rolling a minimum of 6 defense dice, they won't likely knock out one of your ships in the first run.

But that's what the Apnex is for. Carrying mines, it looks like a disposable minelayer. And the mines are useful, no doubt. But once you drop the mines, it heads straight for the enemy formation. No Klingon player wants to get a point of hull damage to each of his ships, so he'll want to kill it before it gets into range of its special ability. As soon as he opens fire, well, Toreth and Donatra get their Target lock now, don't they?

Anyway, the generic Valdore could be swapped out for the Khazara if you prefer it; All Forward Disruptor Banks could be useful, but with the Tactical Officers, typically once you have a Lock, you'll want to fire instead of waiting for another turn to activate the Banks. AWS is also useful, but generally once combat begins, you'll have other things to spend the actions on (like more Target Locks).

I guess that turned out to be a bit of a novel, but maybe some of it can help you...
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D Conklin
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kemikos wrote:
Your fleet is similar in concept to my OP2 fleet, which went 3-0 against all Klingon opponents. Our venue is faction pure also, though Independents are allowed in any fleet.


I've had great success with semi-pure Romulans in many of the configurations above, but my biggest advice would be to get Gen Kahn on your lead Valdore if at all possible.

Getting a simultaneous shot with with your opponent's biggest gun is nice.

Other bits of random Romulan advice:

-Donatra is a must-take
-Counter-attack is not as awesome as it seems
-Use the D'deridex backward move to your advantage (drop mines, bluff out your opponent, etc)
-Romulans are the best faction for "Two heavies and a support ship"
-Apnex Muon is not worth it
-Limit your cheese factor... 2 cloaked mines is enough!
- Think like a Romulan not a Klingon... don't plunge headlong into combat. Think about angles, mis-direction, etc. Think more than 1 move ahead.
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Will

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dc0nklin wrote:

-Apnex Muon is not worth it

By itself, I would agree. However, if a unit is trying to get out of a minefield (or away from an OWP like in the month 3 event) with a long movement, then it could be. If the opponent has 3 or 4 ships in a minefield that only a long move would clear, and sees that you have a Muon equipped ship nearby, then it could make it a tough decision for facing move-1 automatic damage or 3 attack dice with no evasion dice. Your opponent won't know which unit you are going to play it on until you do making it a tough decision for all units. Then it costs an action to remove it or it does it again.
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D Conklin
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Broadstorm wrote:
dc0nklin wrote:

-Apnex Muon is not worth it

By itself, I would agree. However, if a unit is trying to get out of a minefield (or away from an OWP like in the month 3 event) with a long movement, then it could be. If the opponent has 3 or 4 ships in a minefield that only a long move would clear, and sees that you have a Muon equipped ship nearby, then it could make it a tough decision for facing move-1 automatic damage or 3 attack dice with no evasion dice. Your opponent won't know which unit you are going to play it on until you do making it a tough decision for all units. Then it costs an action to remove it or it does it again.


Wow, hadn't considered a Cloaked Mine / Muon "combo". Now that's thinking like a Romulan!
 
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dc0nklin wrote:


Other bits of random Romulan advice:

-Donatra is a must-take


In any fleet of three ships or more, unquestionably. In a two-ship fleet, she's marginal. There aren't many Captains whose ability is worth more than 2 (or more) additional attack dice, but many of them are worth more than one, which is all Donatra can give in a 2-ship fleet. In a one-ship fleet (say, a 40 point skirmish or similar), she's worse than just about any other named Captain.

dc0nklin wrote:
-Counter-attack is not as awesome as it seems


Very true. Rarely is it worth giving up an Action on the off chance that a ship in your front arc will fire at that specific ship later in the turn. A smart opponent will simply fire at any of your other ships.

The exception, of course, is when it's on the Kraxon, where it's almost always awesome. I don't think we're talking about out-of-faction uses here though.

dc0nklin wrote:
-Use the D'deridex backward move to your advantage (drop mines, bluff out your opponent, etc)


Absolutely, though keep in mind it can make keeping formation more difficult. If you're relying on always getting Donatra's buff, make sure to practice moving your ships around to maintain Range 1.

dc0nklin wrote:
-Romulans are the best faction for "Two heavies and a support ship"


Currently yes, though I'm interested to see if that changes with the Dominion and Federation heavy hitters coming down the pike.

dc0nklin wrote:
-Apnex Muon is not worth it


As Will said, there are situations where it can be. However, it's still pretty situational. Since the Apnex only has one Tech slot, I still think you'd get more use out of another set of Mines.

dc0nklin wrote:
-Limit your cheese factor... 2 cloaked mines is enough!


Also true unless you have a specific strategy in mind. Spamming mines with a Science Vessel swarm doesn't count as strategy.

dc0nklin wrote:
- Think like a Romulan not a Klingon... don't plunge headlong into combat. Think about angles, mis-direction, etc. Think more than 1 move ahead.


This is the biggie. There's one player in my store's OP events who started out flying Romulan, with a 3 Valdore fleet. After 2 OP1 events he gave up on the Romulans entirely, switching to Klingons for OP2. He claimed there was no way the Romulans could keep up with the sheer number of attack dice the Klingons could put out.

Well, if you're just trying to beat the Klingons at their own game, then of course it won't work. The Romulan Alpha Strike fleet will never beat the Klingon one, because it's not meant to.

Both the Klingons and Romulans rely on dice ramping, but they go about it in very different (and thematic) ways. The Klingon way is simply to pile on the attack dice; start at 5 and load 'em on. This fits the Klingon mentality very well: aim the pointy end of your ship at the enemy and push all the shiny red buttons until there's no more enemy!

The Romulans get their ramping through more subtle means. Taking advantage of superior positioning and maneuvering (IRW Khazara, IRW Valdore, Capt. Valdore), having more precise targeting information (Tactical Officer, Toreth), and making the enemy pay for rash tactical decisions (Cloaked Mines, Muon Feedback, and so on). In TV terms, skulking around under cloak to gather information about the enemy, maneuvering into a superior position, luring your enemy into traps, and waiting for the perfect moment to fire are all very Romulan things to do.

And honestly, aren't the Romulans actually better at dice ramping than the Klingons, when you think about it? Consider the IRW Valdore with a Tactical Officer. You're taking Green maneuvers, and Donatra's nearby, so you're rolling 6 attack dice. You roll only 2 hits (which is less than average, but not uncommon). So you spend your Target Lock to reroll 4 of them. That gives you 2 more hits. Tac Officer lets you reroll the 2 that are still blank.

Now think about this. You just rolled 12 Attack Dice. Name one Klingon ship that lets you do that, every single turn.
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Will

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dc0nklin wrote:
Broadstorm wrote:
dc0nklin wrote:

-Apnex Muon is not worth it

By itself, I would agree. However, if a unit is trying to get out of a minefield (or away from an OWP like in the month 3 event) with a long movement, then it could be. If the opponent has 3 or 4 ships in a minefield that only a long move would clear, and sees that you have a Muon equipped ship nearby, then it could make it a tough decision for facing move-1 automatic damage or 3 attack dice with no evasion dice. Your opponent won't know which unit you are going to play it on until you do making it a tough decision for all units. Then it costs an action to remove it or it does it again.


Wow, hadn't considered a Cloaked Mine / Muon "combo". Now that's thinking like a Romulan!


I had not thought of it either until I read your comment. I will try it out at some point and get back to you.
 
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Will

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kemikos wrote:


dc0nklin wrote:
-Apnex Muon is not worth it


As Will said, there are situations where it can be. However, it's still pretty situational. Since the Apnex only has one Tech slot, I still think you'd get more use out of another set of Mines.


Yes, it is definitely situational as you said, and another Minefield would be more useful in several ways (corralling units, covering a wide area, affecting multiple targets, getting them to turn away so they can't shoot you) & cost 1 less point, but if you can't get into position to place it and/or don't know where to place it given that overlaps do not add attacks, and they may not be placed within 2 of the current position of an enemy unit, the Muon Feedback Wave gives you a different tactical option, and I like to have some flexibility. Also, what I mentioned earlier about forcing a difficult decision can have a significant psychological effect on your opponent. I have won games in part on tactics that had more psychological impact than direct mathematical value.
 
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Paul Romer
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Just as an update, here's the build I ran. It was a modified version, with the same basic idea.

IRW Khazara
Jean-Luc Picard
Adv. Weapon Systems

IRW Valdore
Donatra
Tactical Officer
Counter Attack

Romulan Science Vessel
Generic Captain
Cloaked Mines

I think the build was relatively sound except for a couple things like this. In a map this open, 1 cloaked mines doesn't help a ton. It basically allowed me to drop my troops, then use the mines to block whatever direction the other side was coming around the planet on so that I could get everything set up for battle and meet them on my terms. I'd say the 15 points for a worthless ship + cloaked mines was probably a bit steep.

The Khazara was a wrecking machine. It was easily the scariest individual ship, I felt, in the tourament. I was always rolling at least 5 attack with battlestations because I was using JLP to re-enable the AWS and battle stations (or target lock). So, I got a +! for firing while cloaked. I always stated within 1 of Donatra so that's another +1. I also tried to keep within one of my opponent. So I was running 6 attack dice a lot as well with either a re-roll or battlestations. I think this might become a staple for me.

The Valdore was powerful. I was usually rolling 5 dice because I was trying to run green maneuvers, but it didin't always work out. I did target lock a lot to take advantage of tactical officer. Counter attack was part of the build simply because I had 3 points to spare. I only had a chance to use it once, but it didn't come through. I set it up as my action, then I was on the wrong side of a Barrage of Fire. The guy rolled 11 dice, hit with 9. I defended with 6 and didn't get a single evade. So, I didn't even get the chance.

I think the only thing that will stay the same in this build is the Khazara+JLP+AWS. I think I'll drop Counter attack, and possibly tactical officer and try to get a better 3rd ship. I'm going to play around with it.

The tournament ended with me getting a 1-2 unofortunely but that had very little to do with the build. The really crazy Barrage of Fire was the game changer in one. If that didn't kill my Valdore I probably would have won because I was set up to hit hard on a counter attack, and my Khazara was positioned in such a way to really drive it home. The other loss came because I needed to get one more hit on the opponents ship to destroy it. If I did that I'd have won buy points. I rolled 3 attack (because of a small mistake in my movement), hit on 2. The opponent had 2 defense dice, and rolled 2 evades. Then time ran out.

I'll report back with my modified build.
 
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The Jigsaw Man
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kemikos wrote:
You're taking Green maneuvers, and Donatra's nearby, so you're rolling 6 attack dice. You roll only 2 hits (which is less than average, but not uncommon). So you spend your Target Lock to reroll 4 of them. That gives you 2 more hits. Tac Officer lets you reroll the 2 that are still blank.


Unless I missed a trick somewhere, no die can be re-rolled more than once.
 
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Thomas Landy
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JgzMan wrote:
kemikos wrote:
You're taking Green maneuvers, and Donatra's nearby, so you're rolling 6 attack dice. You roll only 2 hits (which is less than average, but not uncommon). So you spend your Target Lock to reroll 4 of them. That gives you 2 more hits. Tac Officer lets you reroll the 2 that are still blank.


Unless I missed a trick somewhere, no die can be re-rolled more than once.


Tactical Officer specifically breaks that rule.
 
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Will

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The Babylon Project was our last best hope for peace. It failed. In the year of the Shadow War, it became something greater, our last best hope for victory.
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It seems that to play the Romulans well, we need to play up their strengths and stop overpaying for their weakness. The Romulans have a lot of tech options, but are basically screwed on initiative. They are placed third behind Federation & Klingons for breaking numerical ties, and even with Admiral Jarok, still have nothing better than a 7 captain, which means that your opponent, either Federation or Klingon gets to fire 9s, 8s & 7s, then, IF you have any ships left, you get to shoot back even if you have the top rated Romulan captain. I am looking into build options that use lower rated captains to free up points for better tech rather than wasting points to lose initiative by a smaller margin.
 
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