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Subject: Attack luck factor rss

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Mihhaelo Antono
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I'm thinking about getting Attack! and it's expansion as alternative playing Risk. I've been reading some threads covering how Attack! compares to other boardgames, and I'm getting pretty exited getting it.

There's a question I'd like to ask though; when playing Risk there's a luck-factor which now and then ruins the strategy being played, and I'm ok with that. It's part of the game and the fun! Still, for my taste, I hope Attack! is less on the luck-factor and depends more on strategy.

I've read some postings saying the Attack! depends too much on luck, or even out ranks Risk for that matter. I'd like your opinion on that.

thanx!
 
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Ken Feldman
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It's been a while since I've played, but I do remember there being quite a bit of luck involved. The strength of the neutral countries and the resources they have varies, so a power with a lot of high stregnth, low resource neutrals nearby can have a much slower start then one with low strength neighbors.

There's also some dice luck too. You can conquer countries with a diplomacy dice roll, and if you do well on that, you gain an edge over players that miss their diplomacy rolls.

Still, it's a fun game to try with much more to it then risk. I think the revised (2004 edition) of Axis and Allies is much better and about the same complexity though.

Ken
 
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Mihhaelo Antono
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I've never played A&A; I got the impression A&A is setup the same way each time you play. From then on you get to play the game you want to. I think I can predict that some members of the group I play with won't enjoy starting with Axis, in fact, the entire association with reality won't do to well. So I'm afraind A&A is out of reach (unfortunately).

As for the luck-factor: perhaps considering Risk 2010 is a better alternative or even Vinci. Thing is; I'd like to play a game which has conquest in it, but also offers alternative ways of winning (through diplomacy fe) and a bit less on the luck factor.

Any suggestions?
 
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Philip Thomas
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Risk 2010 is just as bad for luck as original risk, the basic combat rules with the lack of scaling are the same and there are random card effects. It scores over Risk because there is a time limit.

Vinci has diceless , compeletely calculable combat, which is quite a different experience.

The Axis and Alllies setup is identical each time, but the newer version lets you play around with victory conditions: if you have people who don't like WWII then obviously it is not a smart move.

Samurai Swords (sometimes called Shogun) is one of the best games in the genre, which has the variable setup of risk but an intelligent combat system like Axis and Allies. Sadly it is out of print.

You may also want to consider War of the Ring and A Game of Thrones, both wargames in the Fantasy genre which have fairly good combat systems.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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I can't comment on Attack!, but here are some other games you might want to look at:

As Philip Thomas suggested, A Game of Thrones (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/6472) - you can't win just by diplomacy (you have to take over a certain amount of the map), but making a deal with one of your neighbors certainly helps. This has a lot less luck than Risk; the combat doesn't use any dice, and your combat strength is adjusted by a card which you secretly choose.

Twilight Imperium (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/24 and http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/12493) - at least in 2nd edition, we tend to have some turns of buildup and expansion, and then some ugly empire-crushing conflicts. (Where, again, diplomacy alone won't win you the game, but it sure helps.) ("In theory" you should be able to do pretty well without massive war--the victory conditions are things like, develop a certain number of technologies, control a certain number of planets, etc.--but those planets have to come from someone, and some of us aren't very good at "limited war.") I haven't played 3rd edition, but it sounds like that has additional ways to win--secret goals & stuff. You might be able to get a cheap used copy of 2nd edition...

Conquest of the Empire II (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/17710) - this one is a lot of fun too. You earn victory points by having the most influence in a territory, but multiple players' armies can occupy the same space, and yours doesn't have to be the biggest... There's a formal diplomacy element where, at the start of each campaign season, everyone splits into two alliances (you pay money to determine the division), and you can't attack people in your alliance. This makes it possible to win while everyone at the table is trying to stop you--and that's fun! (This also comes with a second set of rules, the "classic" rules, but I haven't tried those.)

Anyway, the rules for all of these are online; you definitely want to read them first (especially A Game of Thrones) to see whether they're your kind of thing.
 
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