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Dreaming Spires» Forums » Rules

Subject: College diagram confusion rss

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Tony Randall
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I am confused about the wording at the top right of the diagram: "Different colored buildings may touch as long as each is separately touching a same-coloured building.

The line is drawn to the icon which crosses the three tiles, so if the second occurrence of "building" is supposed to be "icon" then it would make sense. Is that what was intended?

Otherwise it reads to me as an illogical "A and not A" - different colored tiles can only be touch each other if they are both touching a tile that must then somehow be same color of each of the others. THAT would make complete sense if the line were drawn do the lower corner of the church tower and chapel tile AND the quad were slid over half a space, because the chapel is both yellow and grey. (but that intent seems covered to me on the page before with the paragraph starting "all other buildings...")

Another point for clarification, please. I see (again from the bottom right of the garden) that you are not REQUIRED to only build matching icons wherever possible. Is it allowed to put partial icons of different types next to each other? You just won't get any bonuses from them (of any type) because you must have full icons of one type to get a bonus?
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Jeremy Hogan
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Hi Tony - apologies for the confusion, let me clarify this for you and then I will move the line in the rulebook to ensure this doesn't happen again!

The rule is that you must place a building next to another of the same color (except gardens and quads which can go anywhere). Once you have that simple rule down, the rest follows from there.

If you place a building so that it is next to another of the same colour along one edge - and is thus legally placed - it is allowed to touch other buildings, along other edges, that are different colours - that is what the annotation is trying to make clear. The rule is a minimum requirement that once met does not prohibit different coloured edges touching - if the line pointed to the green/yellow edges meeting, would this be clear for you do you think?

On the second question, yes you can place partial icons next to one another and yes you won't get any benefit for these unless they are both matching and placed to complete an entire icon.

Thanks for checking out Dreaming Spires! Jeremy
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Tony Randall
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Oh good grief - I completely missed the fact that the top right green tile was a GARDEN!!! I was focused on it being "green" since the note was specifically about color. So yes, if the line pointed specifically to the shared border between the woodland park and chapel it would designate a spot that covers the situation addressed.

But now I'm curious, since I missed it in the rules if there is one - what IS the purpose of quads and gardens being of colors at all if they can touch anything and anything can touch them? (Or rather than them being yet one MORE color, maybe somehow rainbow/multi color to show it is in effect "everything")

And if a quad can touch any tile of any color, the "same colours touching" note in the bottom left quadrant of that diagram seems misleading as well. That line would be better drawn to the top half of the chapel/church tower shared boundary or between the docks and park.

(sorry - edits for scooping up after-thoughts)
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Tony Randall
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And here's another thought - sorry, should I be doing this elsewhere?

It appears that a player's first choice is always going to be grab a quad or garden. (I could find no scholars in the P&P set without any icons required, and you can't use one if you don't have one. So the only other possibility would seem to be another money dip if their freebie one didn't get them enough cash.)

Given that case - if it is correct - why not have players start with a quad/garden in the setup? (either some type of combo one with both colors each player gets handed by default, maybe a random one from a pile of those before flipping them all over, or maybe they could look at the tiles randomly selected before the medieval age and THEN pick one in player turn order?) Then the line "your first building must be a garden or quad" can be dropped.

(yeah yeah - more after thoughts)
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Jeremy Hogan
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Hi Tony - no this is a good place for questions

The point of gardens and quads having a colour is green and grey buildings can then be built next to them to fulfill their requirement of being built next to a same-coloured building.

We tried starting people with a garden or quad but preferred the current rules - they are simple and provide a choice, both of which are desirable.

Hope that helps clear things up for you!

Jeremy
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Tony Randall
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It's starting to gel. I made the incorrect leap that since a quad/garden could be directly built off anything, then anything could be directly built off a quad/garden. The relationship is NOT both ways - gotcha!

So the tile selection/build order could only have been 1) quad, 2) chapel, 3) garden (as that bypasses the color rule), 4) woodland park, 5) punting docks. The church tower could intrude into that order any time after the chapel was placed.

I appreciate the answers, but FYI it was your quick and personal response that tipped me from waffler to backer today. (#283 - whoop whoop!)
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Jeremy Hogan
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Thanks very much, glad you are on board

Yes you have the building order right now. I am going to do a better diagram for this in light of your questions. I will number the tiles in the order they were placed and ensure this runs from top-left to bottom-right so people intuitively see how it grew.

This is why I love input from people, the more eyes the better so thanks for that. Any more questions, just ask, and do spread the word!
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Mark Ashton
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One thing that confused us in our first playthrough: can a later tile play make a previous play illegal? The simplest example I can think of is, I play a non-green building with my first play, then with my second I play a garden next to it. The garden can go next to any colored tile, but the previously-played tile is supposed to touch another tile of the same color along one side, and doesn't.
 
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Jeremy Hogan
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Hey Mark, thanks for the question. In short, no. You only check if a tile is legally placed as you place it e.g. Gertrude Bell's Archaeologist ability swaps in a building but this never effects your other buildings.

In your example, you must place a Quad or a Garden if it's your first ever building. The reason you start with a quad or a garden is these are the only buildings types that do not need to be placed alongside a building of the same colour
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Mark Ashton
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Ah, I somehow managed to miss that part of the Buildings rules. I have to say the rules are very terse, but it seems to be because they are carefully written!

So to check my understanding, in the simple example I gave, you'd play a quad or a garden first; then the Master's Lodgings could not be played next to it because, although quads and gardens can be built next to anything, the Master's Lodgings is purple and must have one side touching another purple building.

Thanks for the clarification/reminder! When we were playing we got confused and thought we ended up in a situation where a later play made an earlier tile illegal; however, thinking it through now I see that it could only be because that earlier tile was illegal when played (because there is no way buildings can move other than through a scholar's special ability, which was not in issue here).
 
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Jeremy Hogan
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Yes that's right Mark, you've got it. Pleased you think the rules are carefully written - thanks! It's a tough balance between adding extra info and drowning the player in text. Happy college building!

PS just spotted your Arsenal microbadge, nice! I will be getting one of those now
 
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