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Subject: Non-binding aggreements during diplomatic announcements rss

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David Lesouef
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Is it possible to make non-binding agreements during diplomatic annoucements?

i.e.
This is the Diplomatic Announcement Phase:
- Ottoman announced a alliance with HRE.
- Spain nothing.
- England nothing.
- France nothing
- Before HRE accept ottoman's alliance, Spain say: "if you refuse this alliance, I give you a treasure next tur.".

Is it legal?
I think yes because we can make non-binding agreements at any time, but we are not all agree with that in a pbem game.
 
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Max DuBoff
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judograal wrote:
Is it possible to make non-binding agreements during diplomatic annoucements?

i.e.
This is the Diplomatic Announcement Phase:
- Ottoman announced a alliance with HRE.
- Spain nothing.
- England nothing.
- France nothing
- Before HRE accept ottoman's alliance, Spain say: "if you refuse this alliance, I give you a treasure next tur.".

Is it legal?
I think yes because we can make non-binding agreements at any time, but we are not all agree with that in a pbem game.


Long answer: The rules specify that any diplomacy not during the diplomacy phase must be public. The rules also specify that all agreements not under the purview of diplomatic announcements are non-binding. This agreement (or offer, shall we say) is, as I understand it, totally public. It is therefore perfectly legal as long as both sides realize that it is a non-binding offer/agreement.


Short answer: YES.
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David Lesouef
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MD1616 wrote:
Long answer:This agreement (or offer, shall we say) is, as I understand it, totally public.
Yes, it was.

MD1616 wrote:
Short answer: YES.
That's what I thought. Thank you for confirmation!
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Bob Holmstrom
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Absolutely not. Each player in turn order announces whatever they want to announce,

I would have a problem with it as Spain should've announced during their turn, "if you refuse this alliance, I give you a treasure next turn" rather than waiting to right before the HRE's turn.

I believe each player in sequence should make their announcements, binding or not, and not interrupt other player's turns.
 
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Max DuBoff
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Strategery21 wrote:
Absolutely not. Each player in turn order announces whatever they want to announce,

I would have a problem with it as Spain should've announced during their turn, "if you refuse this alliance, I give you a treasure next turn" rather than waiting to right before the HRE's turn.

I believe each player in sequence should make their announcements, binding or not, and not interrupt other player's turns.


When I offer to play Storms for a card next turn, that's interrupting someone's turn. So?


Either way, the question was about what's permissible in the rules, not how one would play it.
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Michael Kiefte
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Strategery21 wrote:
Absolutely not. Each player in turn order announces whatever they want to announce,


Binding agreements have to be announced in impulse order. But you can say absolutely whatever you want at the table whenever you want. This includes threats, promises, and trash talk.

A typical game will have lots of non Binding agreements.
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Bob Holmstrom
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mkiefte wrote:
Strategery21 wrote:
Absolutely not. Each player in turn order announces whatever they want to announce,


Binding agreements have to be announced in impulse order. But you can say absolutely whatever you want at the table whenever you want. This includes threats, promises, and trash talk.

A typical game will have lots of non Binding agreements.


Of course a game has lots of non-binding agreements.

The topic was about interrupting other players during the Negotiations anouncements.

The rules state "each power, in impulse order, declares any agreements that will change the game state." The rules don't allow for others to interrupt at any time with other talk.

Now, I can see that further down in the rules it says, "non-binding agreements can be made at any time between players" but then it says "they are never announced."

 
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Zack S.
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Strategery21 wrote:
Now, I can see that further down in the rules it says, "non-binding agreements can be made at any time between players" but then it says "they are never announced."

In an official capacity. They need to talk (in public) in order to make the agreement in the first place.
 
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Max DuBoff
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Strategery21 wrote:
The rules don't allow for others to interrupt at any time with other talk.

Now, I can see that further down in the rules it says, "non-binding agreements can be made at any time between players" but then it says "they are never announced."



On the other hand, the rules don't disallow it either...
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Igor Radic
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I guess everyone can make non-binding agreement for future turns,in short trash talk,speculations ect.


Conditional announcements (i.e., ones where you place a
caveat on whether or not an agreement goes through based on
the diplomatic actions of powers coming after you in Impulse
Order) are not permitted in any form.
[EXAMPLE:
England
may not announce a deal where they grant 2 mercenaries to
France if France agrees to go to peace with the Ottoman.]
 
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Mark Maginity
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Strategery21 wrote:
.. as Spain should've announced during their turn, "if you refuse this alliance, I give you a treasure next turn" rather than waiting to right before the HRE's turn.

That wouldn't be a legal announcement. Announcements are only for binding agreements, which in turn are for changes to current game state that are made immediately upon confirmation of the agreement. This doesn't qualify since the treasure award is specified for the following turn. In fact, refusing an alliance can't be part of a legal announcement either since refusing an alliance doesn't change the game state! So every single part of such an announcement would be illegal. I agree with others that it's a perfectly legal thing to say (hey, backstabbing is part of what the game's all about!), just not as an announcement.
 
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