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Subject: Clarification on the Gambling World and Pilgrimage World rss

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Ray
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These questions just came up on my How To Play video and I wanted to post in the rules forums in case there is still more confusion or opinions:
( http://boardgamegeek.com/video/36094/race-for-the-galaxy/how... )

Can the Gambling World consume one good and draw if lucky in one phase?
No, you can only use a card's consume power once per turn. Gambling World is either/or, not both.

If the Pilgrimage world consumes 3 goods for x2 VP, is it worth 4VP or 5VP?
5VP, it is the total normal points, minus 1.

I admit the rulebook is ambiguous in these two cases, so I took my answers from how the game is played on Boardgamearena.com.
Also, I couldn't easily find this discussion on BGG, so here it is.
 
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Kenneth H
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I play on Keldon, and rarely play either card, but I believe the rules are the opposite on both cards. For Gambling World, you can do both in the same turn. For Pilgrimage World, it's minus one entire good, so for your example, it would be worth 4 points.

Somebody will be by shortly to set the record straight, no doubt.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Flamethrower49 wrote:
For Gambling World, you can do both in the same turn.


In fact, you must always do all consumes if you are able (the correct type of goods is available). However, the Gambling part is forgiving and allows you to not ante any card. (At least with Keldon AI.)
 
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H-B-G
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a1bert wrote:
Flamethrower49 wrote:
For Gambling World, you can do both in the same turn.


In fact, you must always do all consumes if you are able (the correct type of goods is available). However, the Gambling part is forgiving and allows you to not ante any card. (At least with Keldon AI.)


Note that it is only the card from Rebel vs. Imperium that involves an ante and is optional. The earlier versions just require you to pick a number and flip a card. This doesn't seem to be optional, but you have nothing to lose anyway.
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Gillum the Stoor
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Flamethrower49 wrote:
For Pilgrimage World, it's minus one entire good, so for your example, it would be worth 4 points.

Right.

"Players who chose Consume: 2x VPs double the number of victory point chips — but not any other effects — that their consume powers provide."

For Pilgrimage World: "Discard all goods (possibly after using other consume powers) to gain VP chips equal to one less than the number of goods discarded."

"Consume: 2x VPs" doesn't double the number of goods - just the number of VPs.

If you discard 3 goods, you normally get 2 VPs. Doubled is 4.

You don't the number of goods to 6 and then subtract 1 to get 5 VPs. That would be doubling "other effects", which is specifically excluded.
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John
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For Pilgrimage world you double what you would have got for a normal consume:

1: 0 x2 = 0
2: 1 x2 = 2
3: 2 x2 = 4
12: 11 x2 = 22 (11 production worlds + settle a windfall on the last turn)
13: 12 x2 = 24 (TGS - 11 production worlds + settle 2 windfalls on the last turn)

[I think the last two examples are theoretically possible, but never going to happening in a real game]

I'd assume you can use (and would have to if you could) two consume powers on the same card.
 
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Also, as this has come up... if you have 0 goods, then you simply have no further action with Pilgrimage World. You do NOT consume 0 - 1 goods for -1 VP.
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mumu shanshi
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zabdiel wrote:
13: 12 x2 = 24 (TGS - 11 production worlds + settle 2 windfalls on the last turn)

Consuming 15 goods on Pilgrimage World for 28 points is theoretically possible in tGS.

Round start: tableau consists of 12 worlds with goods + hidden fortress.
Call: Dev, Cx2
Opponent call: Settle, Settle

Develop Improved Logistics
Settle 3 Windfalls + Pilgrimage World
Consume for 28 points
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mumushanshi wrote:
zabdiel wrote:
13: 12 x2 = 24 (TGS - 11 production worlds + settle 2 windfalls on the last turn)

Consuming 15 goods on Pilgrimage World for 28 points is theoretically possible in tGS.

Round start: tableau consists of 12 worlds with goods + hidden fortress.
Call: Dev, Cx2
Opponent call: Settle, Settle

Develop Improved Logistics
Settle 3 Windfalls + Pilgrimage World
Consume for 28 points
if folks care to delve into exp#3, then u can get 42 VP if you IV×3 via prestige consume x2!
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Rayreviewsgames wrote:
Can the Gambling World consume one good and draw if lucky in one phase?

Yes; these are *two different* powers. See rules, page 10, "Draw if Lucky", where it says "The Gambling World also has a standard consume power in addition to this one."

Quote:
[When] Pilgrimage world consumes 3 goods for x2 VP, is it worth 4VP or 5VP?

4 VPs. Consume 2x VPs "doubles the number of VP chips [...] that consume powers provide". See rules, page 6, and the example for the Pilgrimage World power ("All Goods") on page 10.

Quote:
the rulebook is ambiguous in these two cases

No, it isn't. (It may be hard to find the info or hard to read or whatever, but it is clear on these two points.)
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John
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I forgot about Settle x2 in 2-player mode, and my calculations were wrong (but the two cancelled out). Isn't hidden fortress in a later expansion? RVI?

Agree that you need to call Dev + Cx2 and openent calls Settle x2. I reckon you can get the following:

Base: 10 prod + PW + 2 Windfalls (last turn) = 12 goods for 22 points
TGS: 10 prod + PW + 4 Windfalls (last turn) = 14
goods for 26 points.
RvI: 11 prod + hidden fortress + PW + 4 Windfalls (last turn) = 15 goods for 28 points.
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Ray
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Oh hey, for some reason I wasn't subscribed to this thread and didn't see all these responses.

Well if that's what the game designer says then that's how it is I suppose.

Although I wish the rulebook clarified these examples to prevent confusion.

Boardgamearena.com still plays with the rules as I described.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Rayreviewsgames wrote:
Although I wish the rulebook clarified these examples to prevent confusion

Huh? The rulebook already *does* clarify these examples. I quoted the rules above and gave the page numbers where these clarifications occur. Please take the time to reread them.

Quote:
Boardgamearena.com still plays with the rules as I described.

Then take this up with Boardgamearena. RGG and I have nothing to do with their implementation of RFTG.
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Steram Shaw
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Sorry, just a quick question reg pilgrimage world, if I have 5 goods, but no other consume powers in tableau, can I still use this world to get vp's? so would it be this if I was to select the x2 action, e.g. 5x2 = 10, -1 vp, so I would get a total of 9vp's? totally new to this game, trying the robot expansion at the mo.thanks.
 
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John
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Yes, and you can & therefore must use it.

However the x2 comes after you work out how many points you'd get with a normal consume. With a normal consume (opponent/robot called consume or you called trade and had 5 goods after trading), then you'd get 5-1 = 4, so with x2 you get (5-1) x 2 = 8.

The original post is wrong about this, see the post by Tom Lehmann (the designer of RFTG) above which confirms this.

Here's the card for anyone like me who likes to see the card we're discussing:


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Tom Lehmann
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Stevieram wrote:
Sorry, just a quick question reg pilgrimage world, if I have 5 goods, but no other consume powers in tableau, can I still use this world to get vp's?

Yes.
Quote:
if I was to select the x2 action, e.g. 5x2 = 10, -1 vp, so I would get a total of 9vp's?

No, 8 VPs: 2x(5-1), see the example on Rules, page 10, All Goods. You would get 4 VPs if you didn't call 2x; the 2x comes last.
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Jason Kimmings
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I haven't played this for real yet, just playing a test game by myself and running two hands. Pilgrimage World seems highly powered does it not AND is free to place. Every round I was just producing, then consuming for x2 VPs. Is this card too strong?
 
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k1mm1ngs wrote:
I haven't played this for real yet, just playing a test game by myself and running two hands. Pilgrimage World seems highly powered does it not AND is free to place. Every round I was just producing, then consuming for x2 VPs. Is this card too strong?
Not quite. There are several counterpoints to consider:
1) if it's early or midgame, you're forced to consume EVERYTHING during a IV phase. If it weren't there, you'd be able to hold on to 1 or 2 goods to IV$ next round, even after using other, more standard IV powers for VP or cards. It hits you harder when it's a windfall good since they don't replenish as easily of course.

2) I've found the way it works with the VP = "# of goods - 1", it's usually not that far off if you have other IV powers. However, if you're sitting on a mountain of goods and only 1 or no IV powers for VP, it can be a life saver.

3) in correlation with #1, it doesn't really do much on its own. If you got nothing better to III, and ending the game that much sooner won't be an issue, then may as well III it. Especially if it gets you some bonuses. Otherwise, getting goods (even windfall ones), or more relevant powers early on would be more prudent.
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Jason Kimmings
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It's just all I have to do now is produce 5 goods, then consume for 4VPs,and seeing as they're are only 24 in the game, there's no way the other guy can win. He has a couple of consume powers but each only consumes one card for one VP. Those cards also took a turn each to place and had to be paid for, whereas pilgrimage works consumes everything for a free placement.
 
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k1mm1ngs wrote:
It's just all I have to do now is produce 5 goods, then consume for 4VPs,and seeing as they're are only 24 in the game, there's no way the other guy can win. He has a couple of consume powers but each only consumes one card for one VP. Those cards also took a turn each to place and had to be paid for, whereas pilgrimage works consumes everything for a free placement.
In my experiences playing hundreds of games (thousands against that wretched but delightful Keldon's AI ), it's not always that clear cut to "just produce 5 goods". The other guy who tries to mirror you has alternatives... finding a card that IV 1 to 3 goods. Some worlds do double duty by having goods and a IV power for VP.

Plus, when your goods are being sucked away by PW, it can be hard to IV$ for cards. You need to V, then IV$, which slows you down, and can even give your opponents goods to work with.

Each good going away for 1 VP is actually better than PW, as you get 1 less VP of all the goods you have.
 
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mumu shanshi
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k1mm1ngs wrote:
It's just all I have to do now is produce 5 goods, then consume for 4VPs,and seeing as they're are only 24 in the game, there's no way the other guy can win.

Your opponent won't be standing still while you are placing those five production worlds. Or, if you already have five production worlds down and he only has a mishmash of random stuff, that is where you won the game; not only because of Pilgrimage World.
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John
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mumushanshi is right. It's not that easy to produce 5 goods - you need 5 production or 4 production + a windfall. More than one windfall and you need a produce on a windfall power. There are some cheap production worlds but not enough that it's easy to get 5 goods quickly. The earliest you can have 5 goods and Pilgrimage World is round 3 (2-player, selecting two actions per round) and you'd need to be reasonably lucky* to be able to achieve this. If you were in that position at the end of round 6 you could end the game on round 6 with 26 points + whatever your production worlds are worth.

*I'm fairly sure it'd be possible but I think you'd be relying on your opponent to call a phase you need somewhere.
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