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Subject: Decks to Beat rss

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Chris Stevenson
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For Legend of the Five Rings, I've put together decklists that I call "decks to beat," which are designed to serve as gauntlet decks to test against - take a deck archetype that's done well in tournaments, bring all those decklists together and come up with a "standard" version of the deck that models what you're likely to see in a tournament, and (IMHO) should be playtesting against. With all the Plugged-In Tour information, I decided to do the same thing for Netrunner, although the more frequently shifting LCG format may not benefit from it as much.

Anyhow, I did Andromeda and Weyland Tag n Bag (clearly the most successful archetypes on the Tour) last week, and then Gabe and one NBN Making News version today, so I thought I'd link them here, and see if this is something that other Netrunner folks find to be a use.

Weyland Tag n Bag

Andy (heavy central control)

Gabe (Same Old Account Siphon)

NBN Making News (wins through 'normal' advancing, not Psychographics or Scorched)
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Gregory Pettigrew
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beepers wrote:
I'm surprised you don't think Psychographics will be more common, particularly with your admission that Andromeda and Gabe will be.


Psychographics is strong. Atman is strong, but they are not so wildly aggressive in what they do that you have to build around them except by varying your ICE.
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Martin Presley
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Why, oh why, would you not run 3x Faerie in Crim, shit is amazing.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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beepers wrote:
etherial wrote:
Psychographics is strong. Atman is strong, but they are not so wildly aggressive in what they do that you have to build around them except by varying your ICE.


I played Psychographics, Draco and Matrix Analyzer (but again, primary tag support came from their own siphons). If it worked, it won games. If it didn't, it was a dead card. Having a dead card sometimes is worth winning games other times. Most of the time I used it to advance Astroscripts in one turn (7-point Psychobeale is this unrealistic expectation that makes people think Psychographics is a bad card).


Sounds like you're agreeing with me.
 
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Chris Stevenson
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beepers wrote:
I'm surprised you don't think Psychographics will be more common, particularly with your admission that Andromeda and Gabe will be. Psychographics only takes 2 tags to be ridiculously good. I used Psychographics in a crim heavy meta as basically a Siphon reversal, and it was pretty effective.

To reiterate, this is not predictive (except I suppose in that it presumes that what's been common in the past will be common enough in the future to be worth testing against). I didn't do the non-Psychographics NBN deck because I think it's worse, I did it because the non-Psychographics deck has (at least among published information) been more successful (not a lot, but some).

hoobajoo wrote:
Why, oh why, would you not run 3x Faerie in Crim, shit is amazing.

And, similarly, these articles are describing what people were playing with in successful decklists, not what I or you or someone else may consider to be the optimal deck. The criminal decks listed don't pack 3x Faerie because that's not what published, successful Criminal decks have typically been packing.
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Christian Smith
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Skimming before I rush off, but in the Andy deck, a 1x Professional Contacts seems pretty hit or miss without a Hostage or two. I'm really feeling that +1 Hostage -1 Special Order would make more sense in that decklist.
 
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dan dargenio
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CasMat wrote:
Skimming before I rush off, but in the Andy deck, a 1x Professional Contacts seems pretty hit or miss without a Hostage or two. I'm really feeling that +1 Hostage -1 Special Order would make more sense in that decklist.


This. Pretty much no one is playing a pro contacts without 2x Hostage.

Simply averaging out tournament winning deck lists is not a good way of putting together a gauntlet of decks to beat. Most of these deck lists take advantage of synergy between the cards and become significantly worse when you water them down with cards from other lists. For instance, 3x PAD 2x Marked Accounts is pretty good in an NBN deck, but 1x PAD 1x Marked would be awful. (I know you didn't do this, but it's an illustrative example).

In your Gabe deck, you mention most people run either 3x Faerie or 3x Crypsis, and then split the difference. These cards usually end up lending themselves to pretty different game plans. Crypsis can sustain early aggression by himself given enough money, whereas Faerie buys you time to set up a stronger overall breaker suite without having to worry about getting your Yog slammed by a rototurret or a grim while you facecheck. Playing one of each and splitting the difference just makes you unfocused. What's important is that you are able to facecheck ICE early without getting blown out, but if you want to set up a good breaker suite every game in the long run, installing and running with crypsis only to trash him is a crappy way to go about things. You're either on the crypsis plus sneakdoor with some help plan, or the faerie while setting up plan. Splitting the difference is crappy.

In Weyland, 2 Corporate Troubleshooter usually get accompanied by rototurrets, for obvious reasons. 3x Snare usually implies a strong focus on flatlining the opponent, and are frequently joined by more than one posted bounty and/or false lead to disallow a runner from safely running on click 2 as well as 4.

You'd probably be better off finding one tournament winning deck of each type that is more or less representative of the archetype in general than averaging out a bunch of different-but-similar ones. I realize that this puts you out of a job, so to speak, but the way you've set out to do the job is flawed at its core.
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Chris Stevenson
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Well, that frankly just requires the author (me) to notice correlations, rather than rely on pure averages (the pure averages form a baseline, so that I can get an objective picture of what's being played before I apply subjective judgment in tweaking the gauntlet decklists and/or deciding that two strains of a deck are too divergent to lump together). Which I attempted to do here although, as noted, this was my first crack at doing it for Netrunner. In this case, I missed on one, and disregarded another that you think I shouldn't have. So, by that reckoning, I'm 50/50, and that isn't great.

I missed on the False Lead/Posted Bounty/Snare correlation. There were several Snare-packing decks that didn't have 2x False Lead/Posted Bounty, but most of them did have 2x FL/PB, and I probably missed that correlation because I wasn't clumping FL and PB together.

The Hostage/PC thing is correct, but I didn't consider it a big issue in the grand scheme of things, since those economy resource spots are fairly fluid.

The Gabe breaker thing I caught and pointed out - some Gabe decks have 3x Faerie, some have 3x Crypsis, some run a single Faerie, and some run a single Crypsis. Since you need to be ready for both Faerie and Crypsis when playing against Gabe, I don't think that leaving one of each in the test deck is unreasonable. But as you note I did specifically point these issues out and that that you might want to play it as 3x Faerie or 3x Crypsis. I think the process worked here.

However, from what I can tell, you're incorrect about Rototurret and Corporate Troubleshooter usually going together. Troubleshooter showed up more w/o Rototurret than with it (indeed, IIRC, among the actual winning decklists, they only showed up together in the all-sentry deck). Again, let me note that I am not passing a judgment about what people should have been playing, just looking at the decklists that were played, did well, and were published.

Of course, you may still consider a 50% disagreement rate disqualifying. But even if you don't find them of much use, thanks for taking the time to carefully read the posts and provide thoughtful commentary.
 
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Steven Tu
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Shooter turret, maybe.
Shooter archer, for shizzles.
 
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Kevin Smit
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If you're looking to put together a list of decks to test against, here's what I'd recommend:

Corp:

Weyland BBW with Scorched Earth, Snare!, op economy.

NBN: BN with some combination of Midseason Replacements, Psychographics, and Closed Accounts.

HB: ETF with Big Ice (Bioroid Efficiency and Oversight AI + costly high-strength ice)

Runner:

Andromeda with Anarch icebreakers and Datasucker

Gabe of some type (sensible icebreakers, Sneakdoor Beta)

Kate with Atman, Datasucker and Parasite

Noise using some combination of Personal Workshop/ Sahasrara and Clone Chip + Grimoire / Viruses
 
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