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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bonds of Loyalty and negative Repuation rss

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Scott Lewis
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I think I have this one down, but I just want to check:

I have the Bonds of Loyalty skill. My reputation is at -1. I see a unit in the offer I want that costs 3 influence.

Do I get the unit for free?

My guess is "no", based on this logic: While the cost of the unit is reduced to 0, my "influence" for the interaction by default is -1. Thus, I'd have to spend 1 influence to negate the -1, and bump me up to 0, thus affording me the unit.

However, I just wanted to check that my logic was sound, and that I'm not missing something else.
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PC ichigo
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Well, according to the rule...

"Total the Influence points provided by all your cards and effects. The total amount is then modified by your Reputation"

So, I guess your logic is correct. : )

 
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Scott Lewis
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I guess that could lead to the question of "can your influence total be negative, or is 0 the minimum"? I didn't see anything that says it CAN'T be negative, but perhaps that was an intent that I'm not seeing or that was inadvertently not written.
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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No, you get the unit for free.
You can also have it for free if your reputation is at -2.
You total all your Influence including your reputation.
So if you don't play anything your influence is -1.
You need 4 Influence to buy this unit and you get discount of 4.
You can't earn 1 Influence here! That's why it's mentioned minimum 0.
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Josiah Leis
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pabula wrote:
No, you get the unit for free.
You can also have it for free if your reputation is at -2.
You total all your Influence including your reputation.
So if you don't play anything your influence is -1.
You need 4 Influence to buy this unit and you get discount of 4.
You can't earn 1 Influence here! That's why it's mentioned minimum 0.


I'm sorry, but I'm unclear on what you are saying. You say that he CAN get the unit for free, but then your argument seems to support the idea that he CANNOT get the unit for free.

If he totals all Influence and then adds his rep his total Influence is -1. Bonds of Loyalty gives a discount of 5 to a minimum of zero. If his Influence is -1, then he is short of 0 and cannot get the unit. Or are you saying that Influence cannot go into the negative and therefore any unit that has its cost lowered to 0 is free?
 
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Pete Goch
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Your total influence generated can go negative. It's the cost that can't go negative. With all effects - in this case no effects - plus reputation penalty he's generated a total of -1 influence. This makes a unit that normally costs 3 cost 4. You have a discount of 5 influence off of the cost with Bonds of Loyalty which reduces the cost to 0 but not negative -1 since the cost can't go negative. If the cost went negative you would gain a point of influence when buying the unit.
 
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Tom H
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The unit costs 3 (not 4) influence to recruit, it doesn't matter what your current influence total. If I have 10 influence it doesn't cost -7 influence to recruit a 3 cost unit.
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Scott Lewis
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The cost of the unit is 0 in this case, because Bonds of Loyalty reduce the cost by 5. The big question is, can your influence total be -1, or is 0 the minimum for influence. IE, if I want to get the unit, do I have to spend 1 influence to negate my -1, or can I just take it for free.
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Trevin Beattie
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Influence can certainly be negative; it starts out negative when you begin interaction with a bad reputation. (You count reputation first, then play Influence; see the Lost Legion rules, pp. 9–10.)

I think you may be missing the bigger picture though. Units under the Bonds of Loyalty cannot be disbanded, and may be used in areas where ordinary units cannot such as a Tomb. Why not save this token for an elite unit instead of a lowly level 1 unit?
 
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Josiah Leis
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Trevin wrote:
Influence can certainly be negative; it starts out negative when you begin interaction with a bad reputation. (You count reputation first, then play Influence; see the Lost Legion rules, pp. 9–10.)

I think you may be missing the bigger picture though. Units under the Bonds of Loyalty cannot be disbanded, and may be used in areas where ordinary units cannot such as a Tomb. Why not save this token for an elite unit instead of a lowly level 1 unit?


While that is generally true, there are times when I will take a lower cost unit with bonds of loyalty. Paralyzing enemies that you know you have to fight and will kill said unit are always an option. Plus there are some banners that can make certain units very good, even if they are low cost. This rule question could apply to any unit that is 5 influence or less to purchase.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Trevin wrote:
Influence can certainly be negative; it starts out negative when you begin interaction with a bad reputation. (You count reputation first, then play Influence; see the Lost Legion rules, pp. 9–10.)

I think you may be missing the bigger picture though. Units under the Bonds of Loyalty cannot be disbanded, and may be used in areas where ordinary units cannot such as a Tomb. Why not save this token for an elite unit instead of a lowly level 1 unit?

I plan on killing off the unit eventually if I can, and I needed to for a particular turn (as I needed something now, to avoid falling further behind). I know it's not optimal (and perhaps even a waste), but for the situation I was in, it was needed even if temporarily.
 
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