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Subject: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Game over! rss

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Heist
6 thieves are looking to score big, but the cops within their ranks must be found out first.

I've been testing this prototype for a little while now and it's fun face-to-face. But the BGG wolves are always the best at breaking things if they're there to be broken, so time to see how it holds up to forum play with a perfect memory of events and claims.


Who will like it?
Heist plays a little like One Night Werewolf or a fast fiver. If you don't like those, you probably won't like this, but I could be wrong. The variance in kinds of play is much greater here. I'd expect this game to go about a week in length, at about a day per dusk/dawn cycle. But the timing is based on the actions of the players, so it may go shorter or longer.


How to play, order of operations
We'll play over 5 rounds. For the forums, this will be 5 dawn/dusk cycles.
1. N0 everyone will get 2 role cards and 2 cards will be missing from play. There is guaranteed to be at least one Cop card in play. One of these cards you will use as an action, one of them will become your goal to win the round. Some cards have abilities on them that affect you as long as you're still holding that card.
2. I'll give everyone a little bit in the first round to ask questions on their role cards before I call [dawn].
3. After [dawn], anyone can claim/say whatever they like, and anyone can post [action]. After checking to make sure that you didn't cross-post with another [action], you make take the action available on one of your cards. Most actions will require moderator assistance, I'll be watching and try to get things resolved as quick as I can. Note that you can always use your [action] to just discard one of your cards, unseen by everyone. Some cards have no actions and could only be discarded. Cop cards have no actions and cannot be discarded unless you are holding both Cop cards.
4. Once everyone has used their actions (and is down to a single card), discussion can continue and everyone will have a DRAW GUN ON order available in Cassie. At [dusk], everyone draws a gun on another player (you cannot draw on yourself). All roles are revealed. Whoever has the majority of guns pointed at them is caught. Ties mean that multiple people will be caught.
5. Scoring: Players that have accomplished their goal will get cash from the score pile. A single take means a single score card worth $3k, $4k, or $5k. The take is distributed based on the order of actions, if you played your action first, you get first pick, etc. If you get multiple takes, you take one and get your second take after others get their first choice. (On the forum, I'll just sort it for you and tell you what you won.)
6. The next round begins in the same way, with 2 new roles for everyone. After 5 rounds, the most cash collected is the winner.


Roles:

2x Undercover Cops
GOAL - You win a double take if no cops are caught.
ABILITY - You cannot use your action to discard this card unless you are holding both Undercover Cop cards.

1x Snitch
GOAL - You win a double take if no cops are caught.
ABILITY - If holding this while asked a question by the Interrogator, you can answer in any way that you choose.
ACTION - 1. Choose a player with more than one card and have them choose a card. 2. Reveal the Snitch. 3. They discard their chosen card.

3x Thief
GOAL - You win one take if any cop is caught.
ACTION - 1. Reveal the Thief. 2. Place the Thief in front of a player, it counts as an extra gun pointed at that player.

3x Interrogator
GOAL - You win one take if any cop is caught.
ACTION - 1. Reveal the Interrogator. 2. Ask a player a yes/no question, they must answer privately and truthfully.

1x Getaway Driver
GOAL - You win one take if any cop is caught.
ACTION - 1. Choose a player with more than one card and have them choose a card. 2. Reveal the Getaway Driver. 3. Choose another player with more than one card to choose a card to swap with the first.

1x Explosives Expert
GOAL - You win one take if any cop is caught.
ABILITY - If you are caught, whoever you are pointing your gun at is caught too.
ACTION - 1. Choose a player with more than one card and have them choose a card. 2. Reveal the Explosives Expert. 3. They discard their chosen card.

1x Mastermind
GOAL - You win one take if no one points their gun at you.
ACTION - 1. Choose a player with more than one card and have them choose a card. 2. Reveal the Mastermind. 3. You get to privately look at their chosen card.

1x Criminally Insane
GOAL - You win a double take if no one points their gun at you.
ABILITY - If holding this while asked a question by the Interrogator, you must give the opposite answer.

1x Scapegoat
GOAL - You win a triple take and all other players lose if you get caught.
ABILITY - If holding this while asked a question by the Interrogator, you can answer in any way that you choose.


Forum play:
-I'll use Cassie for dusk/dawn, modchat, vote orders. I'll probably turn on thread voting, but won't use it. Players can use it however they like.
-[dusk] will be at 3:00pm BGG time. Actions not in by then will be a random non-cop discard. Drawn guns not in by then will be a random non-self target. Results and next round roles will be posted as soon as possible. [dawn] will be called at 3:30pm BGG time and actions can resume.
-I hope everyone has fun playing, but I am playtesting this game. The latter is probably more important to me, though the former is part of latter. Just keep in mind that stuff could break.
-Other general werewolfy rules apply (no editing posts, no outside communication, no quoting modchat): The Guide To Playing Werewolf On BoardGameGeek
-Be nice. My games are rated E. "Rated E" Games
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Heist - Prototype Playtest
Round 1
HanClinto - 1st to act: used Explosives Expert on gdapkus; pointed at by saberwolf's Thief
gdapkus - 2nd to act: forced to discard by HanClinto's Explosives Expert
saberwolf13 - 3rd to act: used Thief on HanClinto
StatSig - 4th to act: used Interrogator to ask saberwolf "Is your remaining card an Undercover Cop?"
dbmurph22 - 5th to act: used Snitch on Phelanpt
Phelanpt - 6th to act: forced to discard by dbmurph22's Snitch

dbmurph22 draws his gun on Phelanpt
gdapkus draws his gun on Phelanpt
HanClinto draws his gun on gdapkus
Phelanpt draws his gun on gdapkus
saberwolf13 draws his gun on dbmurph22
StatSig draws his gun on dbmurph22
+1 Thief with a gun drawn on HanClinto

dbmurph22 - Getaway Driver (Snitch) - no take
gdapkus - Thief (Cop) - no take
Phelanpt - Thief (Cop) - no take
HanClinto - Criminally Insane (Explosives Expert) - no take
saberwolf13 - Interrogator (Thief) - no take
StatSig - Scapegoat (Interrogator) - no take
missing=(Mastermind)(Interrogator)

Round 2
gdapkus - 1st to act: used Getaway Driver on HanClinto, swapped with dbmurph22
Phelanpt - 2nd to act: used Mastermind on dbmurph22, saw a chosen card
dbmurph22 - 3rd to act: used Explosives Expert on Stat
StatSig - 4th to act: forced to discard by murph
HanClinto - 5th to act: discards a card
saberwolf13 - 6th to act: plays Thief on HanClinto

dbmurph22 draws his gun on HanClinto
gdapkus draws his gun on dbmurph22
HanClinto draws his gun on dbmurph22
Phelanpt draws his gun on dbmurph22
saberwolf13 draws his gun on dbmurph22
StatSig draws his gun on dbmurph22
+1 Thief with gun drawn on HanClinto

dbmurph22 - Thief (Explosives Expert)
gdapkus - Criminally Insane (Getaway Driver) - no guns pointed at him = 2 takes
HanClinto - Undercover Cop (Interrogator) - no cops caught = 2 takes
Phelanpt - Scapegoat (Mastermind)
saberwolf13 - Interrogator (Thief)
StatSig - Thief (Interrogator)
missing=(Undercover Cop)(Snitch)

Round 3
saberwolf13 - 1st to act: discards a card
Phelanpt - 2nd to act: uses Interrogator on saber, asks "Are you holding an Undercover Cop card?"
StatSig - 3rd to act: uses Snitch on Han, who discards a card
$$ HanClinto - 4th to act: forced discard by Stat
dbmurph22 - 5th to act: uses Interrogator on Phel, asks "Is your winning condition dependent on no one pointing their gun at you?"
$$ gdapkus - 6th to act: uses Thief on murph

dbmurph22 draws his gun on StatSig
gdapkus draws his gun on HanClinto
HanClinto draws his gun on dbmurph22
Phelanpt draws his gun on dbmurph22
saberwolf13 draws his gun on gdapkus
StatSig draws his gun on Phelanpt
+1 Thief with gun drawn on dbmurph22

dbmurph22 - Mastermind (Interrogator)
gdapkus - Interrogator (Thief)
HanClinto - Getaway Driver (Undercover Cop)
Phelanpt - Thief (Interrogator)
saberwolf13 - Explosives Expert (Scapegoat)
StatSig - Undercover Cop (Snitch) - 2 takes
missing=(Criminally Insane)(Thief)

Round 4
$$ StatSig - 1st to act: used Getaway Driver on gdap, swapped his chosen card with Phel
Phelanpt - 2nd to act: uses Thief on Han
$$ gdapkus - 3rd to act: discards a card
$$ HanClinto - 4th to act: used Explosives Expert on murph
dbmurph22 - 5th to act: forced to discard by Han
saberwolf13 - 6th to act: uses Interrogator to ask Han "Does 2+2=4?"

dbmurph22 draws his gun on gdapkus
gdapkus draws his gun on Phelanpt
HanClinto draws his gun on Phelanpt
Phelanpt draws his gun on HanClinto
saberwolf13 draws his gun on HanClinto
StatSig draws his gun on saberwolf13

dbmurph22 - Scapegoat (Undercover Cop)
gdapkus - Interrogator (Criminally Insane) - 1 take
HanClinto - Undercover Cop (Explosives Expert)
Phelanpt - Snitch (Thief)
saberwolf13 - Mastermind (Interrogator)
StatSig - Interrogator (Getaway Driver) - 1 take
missing=(Thief)(Thief)

Round 5
Phelanpt - 1st to act: used Interrogator on gdap to ask, "Does at least one of your cards make you win this round when Undercover Cops aren't caught?"
$$ HanClinto - 2nd to act: used Interrogator on gdap to ask, "Does at least one of your cards make you win this round when Undercover Cops aren't caught?"
dbmurph22 - 3rd to act: discards a card
$$$ StatSig - 4th to act: discards a card
$$$ gdapkus - 5th to act: plays Thief on dbmurph22
saberwolf13 - 6th to act: discards a card

dbmurph22 draws his gun on saberwolf13
gdapkus draws his gun on dbmurph22
HanClinto draws his gun on dbmurph22
Phelanpt draws his gun on dbmurph22
saberwolf13 draws his gun on gdapkus
StatSig draws his gun on gdapkus}r

dbmurph22 is caught, Explosives Expert
saberwolf13 is caught, Undercover Cop

dbmurph22 - Explosives Expert (Criminally Insane)
gdapkus - Interrogator (Thief)
HanClinto - Undercover Cop (Interrogator)
Phelanpt - Thief (Interrogator)
saberwolf13 - Undercover Cop (Snitch)
StatSig - Thief (Scapegoat)
missing=(Mastermind)(Getaway Driver)
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
Player List According to Cassandra:
dbmurph22
gdapkus
HanClinto
Phelanpt
saberwolf13
StatSig

6 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/1067...
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
What happens if you're dealt both cop cards?
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
StatSig wrote:
What happens if you're dealt both cop cards?

Ah, whoops forgot to add that special case. That's the only time you're allowed to use an action to discard one of them.

Edit: And edited into the rules...
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
I'm in as long as it can wait 'till after BGG.con. I'll drop if you want to start/end before. (I guess if it started this Monday I could squeak it out.)
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
StatSig wrote:
I'm in as long as it can wait 'till after BGG.con. I'll drop if you want to start/end before. (I guess if it started this Monday I could squeak it out.)

I'm hoping to fill and run fast so that it's done beforehand, but I get the time constraint. I guess you could join and drop Monday if it's not ready by then?
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (1/6)
PeteVasi wrote:
StatSig wrote:
I'm in as long as it can wait 'till after BGG.con. I'll drop if you want to start/end before. (I guess if it started this Monday I could squeak it out.)

I'm hoping to fill and run fast so that it's done beforehand, but I get the time constraint. I guess you could join and drop Monday if it's not ready by then?


That's the plan
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (2/6)
StatSig wrote:
PeteVasi wrote:
StatSig wrote:
I'm in as long as it can wait 'till after BGG.con. I'll drop if you want to start/end before. (I guess if it started this Monday I could squeak it out.)

I'm hoping to fill and run fast so that it's done beforehand, but I get the time constraint. I guess you could join and drop Monday if it's not ready by then?


That's the plan


same here I'd really like to see how this plays. (maybe we can pnp it and test at the con)
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (3/6)
gdapkus wrote:
StatSig wrote:
PeteVasi wrote:
StatSig wrote:
I'm in as long as it can wait 'till after BGG.con. I'll drop if you want to start/end before. (I guess if it started this Monday I could squeak it out.)

I'm hoping to fill and run fast so that it's done beforehand, but I get the time constraint. I guess you could join and drop Monday if it's not ready by then?


That's the plan


same here I'd really like to see how this plays. (maybe we can pnp it and test at the con)


Some cards are still just penciled in. Rules exist only on this page and in my head. Score cards I just borrowed from another game... but I'm getting there.
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (3/6)
I'm interested as long as it doesnt clash with ironman and my work hours.
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (4/6)
Supporting innovation, Pete, and awesomeness
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
Sooo ....



???
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
You don't believe in tipping?
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
PeteVasi wrote:
You don't believe in tipping?


 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
I've emptied Cassandra's vaults.
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
PeteVasi wrote:
-There is no set dusk/dawn times as actions are player-guided. I'll keep a loose enforcement of 24 hours for all actions to be played.
Could you get a clearer schedule? Given that I'm 6 hours away from BGG, I might take longer to react if someone aims an action at me at bgg night, for instance.
What I mean is: You want one round of play to last 24 hours?
Or does each player have 24 hours to respond to an action/use an action after another player has done something?
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - In signup (5/6)
Phelanpt wrote:
PeteVasi wrote:
-There is no set dusk/dawn times as actions are player-guided. I'll keep a loose enforcement of 24 hours for all actions to be played.
Could you get a clearer schedule? Given that I'm 6 hours away from BGG, I might take longer to react if someone aims an action at me at bgg night, for instance.
What I mean is: You want one round of play to last 24 hours?
Or does each player have 24 hours to respond to an action/use an action after another player has done something?

I'd like to run each round in 24 hours if possible, especially since there's a couple people that will be headed to BGG Con and therefore have a game time limit.

I'll also accept conditional orders for reactions to actions, where appropriate. For example, "If asked to choose a card, choose the Thief card."
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
I'll assume your thumb as acceptance Phel. Setting up now, getting first round roles out shortly. Planning on leaving it be over the weekend, and I'll call the first [dawn] Monday morning, probably about 10am BGG time.
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
The Cassandra Automatic Vote Tally System

Your Moderator has enabled the Cassandra Automatic Vote Tally system
for this game. In order for it to function correctly, your votes will
need to be formatted correctly. The following rules will explain what
you will need to do:

Players
1. All votes must be bolded

2. The entire vote statement must be bolded and enclosed in brackets:
[vote jmilum]

3. If your game allows, and you [vote nightfall] your vote will
be locked. Your moderator may have disabled nightfall votes.

4. Vote tallies will be automatically posted to the game thread
regularly if the tally has changed. The Tally and Vote Logs (for each
game day) are also available on the Cassandra game page.

5. If your vote is not counted be sure to check the Vote Log page and
see if it was marked invalid and why.

6. Case does not matter and simple typos will not cause the vote to fail.

7. You may [vote no lynch] if your game allows it.

8. Non voting players will be listed in the tallies. This will only be
correct if the Moderator notes which players have been killed (see below)

9. Editing a vote post will invalidate the vote and it will not be counted.


Moderators
1. The moderator will need to post [Dawn] when the day begins
(after the night results are posted) and [Dusk] when the lynch
deadline has passed and the day is over. Votes will not be counted
after [Dusk] has been posted. They will be registered again
after [Dawn] is next posted.

2. You may include a day number in the dawn and dusk post for
informational purposes, but it will not be used by the system.
Cassandra will increment an internal counter each time it sees
[Dawn] no matter what day is shown in a dawn post (i.e.
[Dawn 3] the three is allowed but ignored)

3. After dusk has been posted, the Moderator may go to the game page
on Cassandra to request a Final Tally to be posted before the normal
scan period has elapsed (i.e. Game Y gets scanned at 45 min. after the
hour, if it lynches at 7pm the moderator may request a tally to be
posted from the game page before 7:45pm. it will also be posted
regardless of whether or not it has been changed since the last
posting) - Do this by clicking on the 'Force Vote Tally' link.

4. You will need to note which players were killed via the lynch or at night by
either posting [killed jmilum] in the thread, or by going to the game
page and editing the player list. When posting in the thread, be sure to post
[dusk] before posting the lynch kill, and post [dawn] before
posting the night kill.
Example:
A. lynch time has passed so post [dusk]
B. goto the game page and select a final tally to be posted
C. check the final tally and post [killed melsana]
D. after the night deadline has passed post [dawn]
E. post the night kill with [killed kima]

Your Moderator has chosen to use the Longest Held Last Vote method for a tiebreaker - This is just for Cassandra system, and there may be a different tiebreaker specified by your Moderator in the ruleset.
Your Moderator has chosen to disallow Nightfall votes.
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Vote Log Page: http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/1067...
Vote Tally Page: http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/1067...
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
Ok, round 1 roles are out, dawn to be called Monday morning.

Let's not have game-related discussion until then too, though questions, gifs, and comments about Reservoir Dogs in-thread are just fine.
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
"One of these cards you will use as an action, one of them will become your goal to win the round."

Those cards -- can they be the same card? Or do they have to be different cards?

Just wondering if your goal and your action can be the same card (without holding a duplicate).
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
Also (and Stat might have to help me out here), but it seems like the Mastermind and Criminally Insane goals would be easier or harder as the sizes of the games change(?). Maybe I'm wrong about that though.
 
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
HanClinto wrote:
"One of these cards you will use as an action, one of them will become your goal to win the round."

Those cards -- can they be the same card? Or do they have to be different cards?

Just wondering if your goal and your action can be the same card (without holding a duplicate).


Sounds like no. The card you use for your action is lost, so there's a trade-off in that the card you don't use for its action becomes your goal.
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Re: Heist - Prototype Playtest - Full, we roll Monday
HanClinto wrote:
Also (and Stat might have to help me out here), but it seems like the Mastermind and Criminally Insane goals would be easier or harder as the sizes of the games change(?). Maybe I'm wrong about that though.


Not sure? Uh... I mean, if we assume random gun-pointing:

4 player game: 8/27 (≈ 29.6%) chance of no one pointing at you.
5 player game: 81/256 (≈ 31.6%)
6 player game: 1024/3125 (≈ 32.8%) chance.

I'd say it's not significant enough to worry about, honestly.
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