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Subject: Can passengers spot? rss

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Gary Logs
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Is there anything in the rules that prevents non-fatigued passengers from spotting for mortars (even if the transport is fatigued)? I know they can't fire but I don't see anywhere that restricts LOS.
 
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Hss Hss
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Good question. Strictly speaking maybe yes.

But I would rule no, cuz it defies the general concept that you cannot walk forward & then use the same unit to spot.

However, that would be a cool ability for the recon specialization
 
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Gary Logs
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Thanks. I think it's maybe best to just clarify at game start that squads don't have LOS while in passenger status. Otherwise it looks to be a legal play.
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Hss Hss
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But actually it's clear that they cannot. On page 20 it says "Fresh squads inside a vehicle may be activated by any action type, but cannot fire or resolve special abilities while inside the transport'. I would say 'spotting' is one of those it cannot do.

Note also that a Truck can be used for spotting. This is one of the things people do want to change however
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Gary Logs
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That's the point of my question since "cannot fire" is not necessarily the same as "no LOS". For example, a non-fatigued pinned unit can spot (ie has LOS) but can't fire without officer etc. LOS is not a special ability. That's why its probably best to clarify at game start until a rule clarification comes out. Maybe it has been discussed already but I haven't found it.
 
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Willem Boersma
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ncree wrote:
That's the point of my question since "cannot fire" is not necessarily the same as "no LOS". For example, a non-fatigued pinned unit can spot (ie has LOS) but can't fire without officer etc. LOS is not a special ability. That's why its probably best to clarify at game start until a rule clarification comes out. Maybe it has been discussed already but I haven't found it.


I agree with Hss Hss's assessment of the rule and this is how we've always played it. Apart from that, using logic, I'd say that while your inside/ loaded onto a truck you can't do much spotting. But sure, a clarification, an official one that is, wouldn't hurt.
 
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bill jaffe
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yeah that's one we need to clarify let me talk to the other rules folks before i make a ruling

Bill Jaffe
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bill jaffe
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so we have an answer

I think they can trace LOS. After all, the rules specifically state that "Fresh squads inside a vehicle may be activated by any action type, but cannot fire or resolve special abilities while inside the transport." This doesn't prevent tracing LOS, since the Mortars are the unit resolving the action, NOT the transported squad. I would allow it.

Bill Jaffe
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Willem Boersma
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skinsfan wrote:
so we have an answer

I think they can trace LOS. After all, the rules specifically state that "Fresh squads inside a vehicle may be activated by any action type, but cannot fire or resolve special abilities while inside the transport." This doesn't prevent tracing LOS, since the Mortars are the unit resolving the action, NOT the transported squad. I would allow it.

Bill Jaffe


I can live with that. Please also clarify then (in a FAQ or new rule books, if still possible) that spotting does not qualify as a special action.
 
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Chris Williams
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boersma8 wrote:
skinsfan wrote:
so we have an answer

I think they can trace LOS. After all, the rules specifically state that "Fresh squads inside a vehicle may be activated by any action type, but cannot fire or resolve special abilities while inside the transport." This doesn't prevent tracing LOS, since the Mortars are the unit resolving the action, NOT the transported squad. I would allow it.

Bill Jaffe


I can live with that. Please also clarify then (in a FAQ or new rule books, if still possible) that spotting does not qualify as a special action.


Go see the New Excitement thread
 
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Hss Hss
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For a half-track I find this fair and square. This means a half-track+fresh infantry may do some nice tricks in combination with artillery and mortar.

But for a truck? But the rules for the truck are going to be redone anyway right?

But how about the medic ability? Is that useable from a vehicle? I don't think I'm every going to use it anyway, but it just sound fun. Why not?
 
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Willem Boersma
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Grand Stone wrote:
For a half-track I find this fair and square. This means a half-track+fresh infantry may do some nice tricks in combination with artillery and mortar.

But for a truck? But the rules for the truck are going to be redone anyway right?

But how about the medic ability? Is that useable from a vehicle? I don't think I'm every going to use it anyway, but it just sound fun. Why not?


It seems to me that using medic's special ability is indeed, as the wording suggests, a special ability, so I don't think that's allowed.

I guess the rules for trucks may be redone in the optional/ advanced rule book that was just announced. Don't know about the standrad rule book. Bill, Chris, Craig?
 
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Chris Williams
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{looks around}

Bill?
Craig?
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Willem Boersma
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RoManXJ9 wrote:
{looks around}

Bill?
Craig?


Missing in action? deserters? ;)
 
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bill jaffe
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yes on spotting for half track transported inf and no for trucks is the right call
yes the truck rules need updating
no on the medic ability

Bill Jaffe
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Craig Robertson
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Here we are heading for some tricky ground. The core rules do not differentiate between trucks and halftracks in the transport rules. We're committed to NOT changing the core rules. However, in the advanced/optional rules we will definitely deal with transports, including spotting and towing guns. I'm also toying around with allowing squads in halftracks to fire at a greatly reduced strength.

Craig Robertson
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Willem Boersma
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1aCraig wrote:
Here we are heading for some tricky ground. The core rules do not differentiate between trucks and halftracks in the transport rules. We're committed to NOT changing the core rules. However, in the advanced/optional rules we will definitely deal with transports, including spotting and towing guns. I'm also toying around with allowing squads in halftracks to fire at a greatly reduced strength.

Craig Robertson
Chief Game Developer
1A Games


Being allowed to fire from halftracks certainly makes sense: AAM allows it and I believe so does Conflict of heroes (though I'm not sure on the latter).
 
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Kevin Chapman
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1aCraig wrote:
Here we are heading for some tricky ground.

I agree. While spotting is not specifically prohibited, it's pretty clear that the designers were heading in the direction that squads in transport vehicles can't do anything other than exit them. This keeps things simple by avoiding a list of things that they can and can't do, as well as modifiers to their abilities while in vehicles.

It also avoids the inevitable modifiers to their defense while in vehicles. After all, if they can fire from a vehicle, they should also be allowed to be fired upon.

Not all of the rules in this game make sense from a practical point of view (for instance, why should the canvas cover of a truck protect those inside from fire?), but they do simplify areas that could get bogged down in a lot of detail that ultimately adds nothing to the play experience. This discussion is proof that allowing squads to do anything while in a transport vehicle is a slippery slope. Perhaps this is the province of optional rules.
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Gary Logs
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Thanks for all the responses.

For further background, I encountered this in a Days of the Fox scenario where a loaded German half-track pushed to block a British exit area. After the British response, the passengers were the only eligible spotter for the German rear area mortar to fire against them. I couldn’t find a rule to dis-allow it. With a halftrack it seemed reasonable to me, so the shells flew (the Brits won by the way, but that’s another post...). After that game, I searched various forums and saw plenty of “combat truck” discussion but not this question. I have to admit I was surprised. I then assumed I just lacked adequate search skills and posted this question.

After reading the responses I like the simple concept that passengers on "transports with no inherent fire strength” lose their LOS as well as the other listed restrictions (covers any future wagons etc. that may show up in future expansions ). It seems to allow a recon strategy that Hss Hss mentioned, and that I observed in my game, and not add more fodder to the “combat truck” gaminess. I still think it is best to clarify at game start whatever interpretation is to be used until an official view is published.



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