John Smith
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
So is the combo of having Visionary play twist the ether on AZ and the villain, and then going into the telekinetic cocoon unbeatable?

AZ can heal himself by about 20hp almost every turn while also dealing out damage, and on top of that any damage done by the villain to AZ just heals him.

I haven't really checked, but I feel like this combo essentially breaks the game. What villain could win against this?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gamer D

Monroeville
Pennsylvania
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure how Absolute Zero heals himself 20 hit points every turn but for sure Twist the aether on the main villain is very effective with Absolute Zero once he has his cold healing module in play.

It's not unbeatable though. If the villain or environment manages to get rid of that ongoing effect or get rid of a Absolute Zero's module that makes him immune to cold damage then that kind of throws a wrench in the plan. Also villains that do damage from lots of different sources such as having a bunch of minions that do damage can get around it.

So it's not unbeatable but it is effective, especially against villains who do most of the damage themselves. We used the Twist the Ether and Absolute Zero combo to take down Kismet not too long ago in fact.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Everything between now and the next game is just killing time
England
London
Agitation
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Any villain that destroys ongoing.
From the base set of 4 that would be all 4.
EDIT: Possibly 3 as Baron Blade offers you a choice to destroy your ongoings or all heroes suffer damage.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
Twisting the Ether of the villain only alters the type of damage dealt by the villain, not by any other targets the villain puts into play. That's great against Baron Blade, but of more limited use against Grand Warlord Voss. It's also vulnerable to Ongoing removal.

Matchstickman wrote:
Any villain that destroys ongoing.
From the base set of 4 that would be all 4

Only 3/4, actually - Baron Blade's nuke is "destroy your stuff or I'll deal you a bunch of damage", but Visionary is immune and Zero gets healed instead of hurt. (Of course, you still need to actually flip him before he crashes the moon.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nushura
Japan
Sendai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yo do not "need" absolute Zero: Telekinetic Cocoon + Demoralizing attack (the card from Visionary that makes her do 1 damage to all non-hero cards at the start of her turn). In principle this should kill any boss, right? You cannot take damage while you slowly chip them away. However, as the others said most bosses have ongoing destruction effects...or time limit as with Blade
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Bender
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nushura wrote:
Yo do not "need" absolute Zero: Telekinetic Cocoon + Demoralizing attack (the card from Visionary that makes her do 1 damage to all non-hero cards at the start of her turn). In principle this should kill any boss, right? You cannot take damage while you slowly chip them away. However, as the others said most bosses have ongoing destruction effects...or time limit as with Blade


It's a good turtling strat, but any villain with any type of damage mitigation can qiuckly become immune. Not to mention, an 80 round game of this would be BORING.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roberta Yang
msg tools
Nushura wrote:
Yo do not "need" absolute Zero: Telekinetic Cocoon + Demoralizing attack (the card from Visionary that makes her do 1 damage to all non-hero cards at the start of her turn). In principle this should kill any boss, right? You cannot take damage while you slowly chip them away. However, as the others said most bosses have ongoing destruction effects...or time limit as with Blade

That actually can barely kill any villains. Any villain with a Damage Taken -1 effect in their deck won't die. Any villain with an HP recovery effect in their deck will heal too quickly. Any villain that can destroy Ongoing cards (with "hard" destruction at least, not "soft" destruction like Baron Blade's "kill your stuff or I damage you" thing) will break your combo (and Spite can do the same thing by returning them to your hand). Any villain that can make you unable to deal damage consistently (like Akash'bhuta's Ensnaring Brambles) will shut you down. Any villain with an alternate win condition (like Voss's 10 minions) will win first.

The only villain I can think of that you might actually be able to kill that way is Plague Rat. Maybe in the right environment you might be able to turtle up and let the environment win the game for you (e.g. have Insula Primalis's volcanoes wipe out the villain and their minions), but even then most villains will be able to survive and/or knock out your defenses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Smith
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
You could call it a turtling startegy, but that usually insinuates that you're not doing much damage and just surviving. But AZ (with his two modules, focused apertures, and thermal shockwave) can either heal outrageous hp or dish out outrageous damage, depending on how much health he can spare:

Healing (one shot and power):
- Say he uses hoarfire (frost-bound drain is also very effective). Hits a target for 4 cold (2+1(FA)+1(TtE)). Hits another target again for 4 cold (converts the 2 fire to cold with TtE and +1(FA)+1(TtE)). Then hits himself for 3 cold (1+1(FA)+1(TtE))+another 3 cold(converts the 1 fire to cold with TtE and +1(FA)+1(TtE)).
- Then, AZ uses thermal shockwave to hit three targets for 3 cold each. He then hits himself for 19 cold (fire->cold with TtE)(8 from hoarfire + 9 from shockwave +1(FA)+1(TtE) which he heals.
So in his HEALING turn he does a TOTAL damage of 17 hp to spread out targets (kills minions, for example) AND heals himself 19 hp. ALL IN THE SAME TURN.

Damage (one shot and power):
- Say he uses hoarfire again. Hits a target for 4 cold. Hits another target again for 4 cold. Then hits himself for 2 fire (1+1(TtE)) which he dishes out as 4 cold and hits himself 3 cold (to heal the 2 fire he just took;getting ready for thermal shockwave blast).
- Then, AZ uses thermal shockwave to hit three targets for 3 cold each. Then (if he has enough hp) he can hit himself for 22 fire, to then dish it out as 24 cold.
In his damage turn he's done: 43 damage to spread villain targets (22 to one target, let's say the main villain), and 21 damage to himself (he'll heal it next turn)

Alternate between healing turns and damage turns, and I really wouldn't call this turtling. More damage is being dished out here per turn than most 3-hero teams. On top of this, AZ could play cards like cold snap and impale to further increase his healing/damage output. He could also change who he's targeting with each of those damage instances depending on his health. It's extremely versatile as far as how much he needs to heal/how much he needs to damage.

The danger definitely comes in equipment wipes. But if AZ's equipment is wiped but not TtE, then all AZ has to do is drop his cold module and he's back in business using one shots to heal when needed as he sets up again for about 2-3 turns.
Ongoing wipes would also be a problem, but I think Visionary can retrieve ongoings from the trash with one of her powers (don't have the cards so can't check that for sure). If she can, within 2-3 turns they're both back in business. As a villain, you would have to be able to consistently wipe out equipment AND ongoings every 4-5 turns to really block this strategy. Either way Visionary and AZ could definitely hold their own without this strat for at least 6-7 turns until they can set this up again.

I hadn't thought about villains that win with time, but I think AZ can deal enough damage to kill the villain before time runs out. I should test this though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Walsh
Ireland
Lucan
Co Dublin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
salty53 wrote:

The only villain I can think of that you might actually be able to kill that way is Plague Rat. Maybe in the right environment you might be able to turtle up and let the environment win the game for you (e.g. have Insula Primalis's volcanoes wipe out the villain and their minions), but even then most villains will be able to survive and/or knock out your defenses.

Plague Rat has an Ongoing that gives him damage reduction and healing, and an Ongoing that lets him redirect damage from Environment cards to Heroes, so I don't know if he can be taken down just by hiding in a Telepathic Cocoon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Lalyman
France
Strasbourg
France
flag msg tools
Try this combo against many different villains and environment combinations. Chances are that you won't manage to put the combo in motion because you won't have the right cards in hand at the right time, or the combo will fall part fast because of the villains targets or ongoing/equipment wipe cards, or the environment, or other circumstances.
Sometimes, it works - it's part of the fun of SotM : sometimes the heroes have a perfect combo in action. Next game they won't - or will manage something completely different.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Nelson Jr.
United States
Cumberland
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
salty53 wrote:
The only villain I can think of that you might actually be able to kill that way is Plague Rat. Maybe in the right environment you might be able to turtle up and let the environment win the game for you (e.g. have Insula Primalis's volcanoes wipe out the villain and their minions), but even then most villains will be able to survive and/or knock out your defenses.


I just beat Plague Rat from the Cocoon on the app.

We're in Pike Industrial, Plague Rat is in the 60's. Bunker, Ra, and Wraith were all knocked out. Visionary survived with 1HP and I played Cocoon just to see what would happen...

Nothing at first, but as incapacitated Ra knocked out PR's healing and defensive Ongoings, he started to take damage from vats and rats. As Wraith healed me up, I planned to pop out of the cocoon and play Twist the Ether to up my Demoralization damage, but the damn things must have been on the bottom of the deck!

By the end, three Mutagen-ed rats are tearing PR apart, I'm up to 26HP, and Demoralize delivers the coup de grace. I think Plague Rat died of old age while I was cocooned.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
marcnelsonjr wrote:
Plague Rat is in the 60's.


Far out, man.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Gay
msg tools
TheSoundOfTrees wrote:
Try this combo against many different villains and environment combinations. Chances are that you won't manage to put the combo in motion because you won't have the right cards in hand at the right time, or the combo will fall part fast because of the villains targets or ongoing/equipment wipe cards, or the environment, or other circumstances.
Sometimes, it works - it's part of the fun of SotM : sometimes the heroes have a perfect combo in action. Next game they won't - or will manage something completely different.


Pulled off a nice Wrest the Mind/TK Cocoon combo against Voss - his psionic worms are immune to WtM's feedback damage, and so was Visionary, courtesy of her Cocoon - so the pain just kept flowing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Arenson
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
horsewithnonick wrote:
TheSoundOfTrees wrote:
Try this combo against many different villains and environment combinations. Chances are that you won't manage to put the combo in motion because you won't have the right cards in hand at the right time, or the combo will fall part fast because of the villains targets or ongoing/equipment wipe cards, or the environment, or other circumstances.
Sometimes, it works - it's part of the fun of SotM : sometimes the heroes have a perfect combo in action. Next game they won't - or will manage something completely different.


Pulled off a nice Wrest the Mind/TK Cocoon combo against Voss - his psionic worms are immune to WtM's feedback damage, and so was Visionary, courtesy of her Cocoon - so the pain just kept flowing!


Oooo! Nice one!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabriel Rockman
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
Using Wrest the Mind against Omnitron's Electro-Pulse Explosive is one of the crazier combos I've found. I suppose if the Wraith used throat jab to postpone it for a turn so you could put Telekinetic Cocoon up, or if you had Twist the Ether on yourself and Ra gave you immunity to fire damage you could do this attack without taking damage.

The only time I did this was on like turn 2 or 3 of the game, and at the expense of 12 health on my visionary, I dropped Omnitron by 42 health points (and let my teammates ignore the Electro-Pulse Explosive).

I've been able to heal Absolute Zero 20 points in one turn repeatedly using Thermal Shockwave's power with Focused Apertures up, Twist the Ether active and Legacy giving a damage boost. I didn't have Impale or Cold Snap up that time, but if either was up, I could have done 10 healing per turn even without Legacy's boost.

The abilities of bosses to destroy ongoing cards or equipment cards is a real pain. You can't do this when Telekinetic Cocoon is up, but the Visionary can use her one shots to look at and rearrange the villain deck to try to make sure this doesn't happen. I've found this especially useful against Citizen Dawn's Devastating Aurora.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Stull
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You can do that quicker by having Wraith Throat Jab Visionary and Visionary plays Wrest the Mind on EPE. So Visionary can keep redirecting 15 damage to any target for each hero target in play as she can’t deal it damage nor does she deal further damage to herself.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.