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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Which side for begginers? rss

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Michele Cannone
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Quoting http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/

"The third thing to know is that if you’re playing with an experienced player, and really want to learn this game, you should play as the US and have your partner play as the USSR. At the beginner level, this game tilts towards the USSR because the USSR starts the game with the initiative. For this reason, you sometimes see people recommending that the beginner play the USSR. This is a mistake. If you play the USSR in your first game, you won’t get an accurate feel of how the game flows because you’re supposed to be the one driving it. If you play as US, you might get steamrolled quickly in an hour or so, but you’ll understand the game a whole lot better, and it’ll make your second play of the game as USSR that much more enjoyable."

How many agree with this? After having payed 5-6 games as Soviet I can say that is really hard when it comes to mid-late war plus playing USA would help see as Soviet play ...

I LOVE TS
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Everything is relative to perception, and your perception is limited.
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The Ginger Ninja
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I think there is logic both ways. In the end, just playing and learning the game flow, mechanics, and a few key cards is most important.

I usually tell people that USSR has an early advantage, US late; then let them decide. Most go with the early advantage. I usually try to give very basic strategy hints based on the bit of asymmetry, and try to advise against mistakes based on card ignorance.
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Michele Cannone
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bigloo33 wrote:
basic strategy hints based on the bit of asymmetry


Can you please specify? I'm interested!

Tnx for your opinion!
 
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Ken Dilloo
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The Ginger Ninja
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Well, basically play to the early/late advantages. Also, that the US can more easily spread to different areas, and the the Soviets have a more difficult time with that, especially in prep for Mid/Late wars. Also, I tell a new Soviet (and Yank, for that matter) that De-Stalinization and Decolonization are important events for spreading Soviet influence.
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Michele Cannone
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I will gladly share some game online to learn more tnx!
 
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Riku Riekkinen
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I agree that, if one wants to teach strategy the experinced player should take USSR. To get the mechanics otherwise it of course doesn't matter.
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Max DuBoff
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First of all, I would listen to whatever Riku says.


If my opinion were sought, however, I would suggest that it really depends on the type of person if teaching. I'm the type of person who does not easily get discouraged by a learning curve (which was a great asset as I struggled through my first ten games of For the People and then Paths of Glory), but I realize not everyone is like that. Giving a new player US is probably better if the new player wants to learn more strategy, but a new player who loses disastrously as US might, depending on the kind of gamer he/she is, never want to even try the game again. Thus, I would suggest giving a serious gamer who recognizes that the game has a learning curve and really wants to grasp the strategy US and a kind of gamer who might be discouraged USSR. I hope this helps.
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Michele Cannone
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First game with USA was a total debacle
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Michael Kiefte
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michelecannone wrote:
First game with USA was a total debacle


It's almost impossible for a new player to win against an experienced player. When I'm teaching the game, I won't go easy, but I will explain what I'm doing and why I'm doing it as I go along. I'll also force my opponent to take moves back that will lose him the game.
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Lawcomic
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My preferred method of teaching is to teach two people at once and serve as "referee", answering questions, helping with rules, etc.
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Michele Cannone
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I wish I had u 2 teaching me
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Michele Cannone
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First game won..but as Soviet
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marc lecours
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If you want the beginner as a future player then have them play the USSR. The stronger player will win either way. But the game will last a few turns more if the beginner takes the USSR.

It is true that as the USA you get more of a feel for the game BUT there is plenty to learn playing the USSR. After 3 or 4 games let the beginner switch to USA if they want.

The first game is about learning the rules. The beginner has enough to learn without having to face the tougher USA decisions. Also don't tell the beginner in advance about cards in the early deck except the scoring cards. There is a certain fun in discovering new events and how to play them. After 2 or 3 games the beginner will know about the early war cards anyways.

By all means give a little advice but not too much. Too much advice makes the beginner hesitate to make their own decisions. Let the beginner learn by trial and error. A beginner expects to lose the first game. In the second game (also with the USSR) the objective is to last a little longer. The objective should not be winning but lasting longer.

If you want a bit more challenge then give the USSR an initial 10 point lead (or even more if you're daring). After a few games the USSR might be able to pull off a victory with that sort of advantage.

It is true that a beginner will progress faster with tips, and playing the USA BUT at the cost of fun and motivation.
 
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Michael Grankin
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All of my Russian friends want to play as USSR to crush dem kapitalists. So you have to take cultural implications into account too.
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Brandon Aeschleman
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I have played 2 games so far, so I am a beginner. The first game, I started as USA playing against my other beginner friend. I noticed how most of the early war cards are totally great for USSR...it was tense and I honestly had no Idea what I was going to do each turn cause of the ammount of great things that I was going to be handing to my oponent for 2 oporations points...So for the first 3 turns he killed me...and the Defcon level was at level 2 the whole time...but then Turn 4 hit and the Mid War cards came in. USSR had 8 Vps at the time, but this was my chance to really do something...My opponent played, "How I learned to not be afraid" and raised the DEFCON to 5...so I struck out and couped Poland. After that one turn, everything started going my way. The Victory track went from -8 to for me all the way to 20 in 3 turns...thanks to the new scoring cards that come in to play during mid war...and I won in the Headline phase of turn 7. The victory was sweet and satisfying...and it's for stories like that, if you want a new person to really feel good about a win, that I say start as USA. Also, last night I played against my roommate. It was his first game and he played as USA...I walked all over him and won with 20 Vps in turn 4...but he learned his lesson..and that he should use the China card...and not to focus on Europe the whole game whie the Russians invade the rest of the world and take full control of Central America/middle east/Asia :-)

 
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Guy Rodgers
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I have new players play as the Soviets since the US has more cards that they have to play around in the early war (Suez, DeGualle, Blockade) - it's an unpleasant experience to be blindsided like that. And it gets a bit confusing to constantly explain "Well, you might not want to play into France yet because of Suez/Degualle" or "You might want to hold onto a 3 Op card because of Blockade" or "You might want to play into these adjacent countries first because of the Korean/Arab-Israeli War".

All a Soviet player needs to know: is to not play into Japan, what Truman Doctrine does, the Indo-Pakastani War, and CIA Created. They can learn the rest of the cards as we play.
 
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