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Subject: Cloaking rss

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Larry DeStefano
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Hello

If I recall Andrews previous posts about the game creation posts, when he was designing the game his first problem with the cloak was lower skill captains were winning because the way turn order was set up. That is why the game is in its present form...I admit it works and I don't hate it or consider it broken. But as an old trekkie I prefer my romulans and Klingons to be decloaked when firing, and the feds waiting to take advantage of the fact the enemy drops his cloak to shoot. AKA TOS "Balance of Terror" episode.

So I have been toying with this idea...When the shooting phase starts the highest skill shoots first. Well what if he could choose to hold his fire and let the lower skill captain shoot first. AND a cloak ship drops his cloak completely to shoot. So then the cloaking vessel would have to decide to shoot and lose his +4 agility bonus or hold fire and keep it.

Even in multiple ship combat just keep passing the init from high to low until we get to the lowest skipper. (maybe ties roll off or go with the standard init rule for factions. The lowest skipper must decide to fire or pass, he cant choose to hold. Then start with the highest again and work to the lowest skill captain again.

I believe this is more thematic would only add one more step. Would just need some HOLD and maybe FIRED counters to mark the ships. I don't think the high skill captains will always hold there fire but it gives the higher skill captains more flexibility which is a big part of being skillful.

It would also still leave the high skilled captains with cloaking to keep their cloaking advantage. They could hold fire let the lower skill captains shoot decloak with no fear and then shoot, then cloak during there action phase.

It would shake up the actual firing order or the POSSIBILTY of the firing order and enhance the game and give an advantage to the higher skill players. IMHO

What you all think??

Thank you

I would let the cloaked vessel raise shields when he decloaks. (Maybe a player special ability would to shoot before the shields go up.) I would leave the rest of the system the same. The cloak marker is flipped to the red side when they shoot and flipped green next to the base for the first time they cloak. Therefore they can still be target locked if the cloaking ships fire ever round. If they cloak 2 rounds no target locks.

 
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Nick Hawkins
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Sorry Larry, I would not be in favour of this, I think it adds a lot more 'game' and only a limited amount of 'thematic'.

I am very much interested in improving the thematic content of the game with minimal added rule and play complexity.
EG my contribution to this discussion house-ruled directional shields PERFECTED

I consider the fixed initiative system to be one of the games weakest points as a simulation of the problems of real-world combat (yes, I know, its SciFi but). However I can't think of anything better that isn't potentially a lot more complicated

My view of the classic attacked from cloaked scenario is that the Federation ship is actually attacking first on the NEXT turn using a lock-on obtained before the enemy could fully re-cloak. My suggestion is that you try my house rules from the thread with ships having 2 actions each turn but more things to do.
 
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charles skrobis
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I'm not sure I like this for the other effects it would have on firing, before going to the whole cloaking thing.

So first and foremost, builds tend to have various captains and skills, so you can preplan out your firing order. This makes things like concussive charges which can take a ships cloaked token, which usually needs a high skill captain to use so that every following ship can make use of the effect, but now would it's shields come up instead of staying down as they do now, why shouldn't I put this with a lower skill captain with a to hit effect, and destroy them with High skill captains afterwards? Can we use this in action and move order so that my low skill captain can hold his move and action till after the everyone else has gone? How do you help the dominion who was using an anti-proton scan against the cloaked ship that didn't have shields, who now decided it does and they get no bonus from their tech? And the questions about such go on and on because the game fundamentally changes.

The next big thing I see is that this lets people get around the bonus to cloaking, and there's really no good way to do that. Given that you require shields to disable to cloak, anything that takes away the agility dice and puts their shields back up, can take away a ship's option to cloak for the entire game. So while this is a thematic oriented idea, it doesn't mesh well with the actual game play. Especially when I point out that this really just makes the federation better who have anti-matter mines for when they're against cloaked, and good damage for when they're not.

Lastly, I would like to know how this isn't going to be a starring contest between players. Cause now the cloaking player holds his attack too, till the point where both players are looking at each other wanting to attack, but not wanting to be the first to do it, over whether or not a ship gets the benefits of cloak at all, and I'd really not want to deal with that without a rule to force someone to do something at some point.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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NickH wrote:
Sorry Larry, I would not be in favour of this, I think it adds a lot more 'game' and only a limited amount of 'thematic'.

I am very much interested in improving the thematic content of the game with minimal added rule and play complexity.
EG my contribution to this discussion house-ruled directional shields PERFECTED

I consider the fixed initiative system to be one of the games weakest points as a simulation of the problems of real-world combat (yes, I know, its SciFi but). However I can't think of anything better that isn't potentially a lot more complicated

My view of the classic attacked from cloaked scenario is that the Federation ship is actually attacking first on the NEXT turn using a lock-on obtained before the enemy could fully re-cloak. My suggestion is that you try my house rules from the thread with ships having 2 actions each turn but more things to do.


I believe this rule is not anymore gamey then any other part of the "game", we are playing a game after all. The question I believe is how hard would it be to implement and does it make more changes necessary. Other then some hold and fired markers and a few seconds of time for a captain to make a decision nothing else needs to be changed. Overall the cloaking rules stay the same, and the target locking process stays the same.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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charles_skrobis wrote:
I'm not sure I like this for the other effects it would have on firing, before going to the whole cloaking thing.

So first and foremost, builds tend to have various captains and skills, so you can preplan out your firing order. This makes things like concussive charges which can take a ships cloaked token, which usually needs a high skill captain to use so that every following ship can make use of the effect, but now would it's shields come up instead of staying down as they do now, why shouldn't I put this with a lower skill captain with a to hit effect, and destroy them with High skill captains afterwards? Can we use this in action and move order so that my low skill captain can hold his move and action till after the everyone else has gone? How do you help the dominion who was using an anti-proton scan against the cloaked ship that didn't have shields, who now decided it does and they get no bonus from their tech? And the questions about such go on and on because the game fundamentally changes.

The next big thing I see is that this lets people get around the bonus to cloaking, and there's really no good way to do that. Given that you require shields to disable to cloak, anything that takes away the agility dice and puts their shields back up, can take away a ship's option to cloak for the entire game. So while this is a thematic oriented idea, it doesn't mesh well with the actual game play. Especially when I point out that this really just makes the federation better who have anti-matter mines for when they're against cloaked, and good damage for when they're not.

Lastly, I would like to know how this isn't going to be a starring contest between players. Cause now the cloaking player holds his attack too, till the point where both players are looking at each other wanting to attack, but not wanting to be the first to do it, over whether or not a ship gets the benefits of cloak at all, and I'd really not want to deal with that without a rule to force someone to do something at some point.


Deal with the first point last. There is no staring contest because the lowest man on the totem pole cant HOLD fire...He can shoot or pass, no fire, therefore a none cloaking ship would never pass. The only one who would, would be a captain whose cloaked ....maybe. Therefore in a battle involving non cloaking ships this rule would hardly ever be used.

Now in regards to card plays they would have to be dealt with on an individual level. This rule is an idea to address a systemic issue, cards can be modified or changed just as easy. This init rule also is only used in the firing phase. And depending on the circumstances may never even be used.

The other point. I'm responding to what I see in my games and what I read on this site....Many people say all they see in the op games and their house games is romulan and especially Klingon attack fleets because they are the best to WIN. (I know many people disagree and I have won as fed many times) My race preference is Romulan by the way and I believe I could live with this rule change. I believe it matches with what we see on the tv shows (which is are only historical record lol).

I will be interested for any info for people who playtest it and let me know what you find. I will try to playtest 11/15/13 and let you know how it goes.

LIVE LONG and PROSPER,
 
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Nicholas Bazzano
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hadrian132 wrote:
NickH wrote:
Sorry Larry, I would not be in favour of this, I think it adds a lot more 'game' and only a limited amount of 'thematic'.

I am very much interested in improving the thematic content of the game with minimal added rule and play complexity.
EG my contribution to this discussion house-ruled directional shields PERFECTED

I consider the fixed initiative system to be one of the games weakest points as a simulation of the problems of real-world combat (yes, I know, its SciFi but). However I can't think of anything better that isn't potentially a lot more complicated

My view of the classic attacked from cloaked scenario is that the Federation ship is actually attacking first on the NEXT turn using a lock-on obtained before the enemy could fully re-cloak. My suggestion is that you try my house rules from the thread with ships having 2 actions each turn but more things to do.


I believe this rule is not anymore gamey then any other part of the "game", we are playing a game after all. The question I believe is how hard would it be to implement and does it make more changes necessary. Other then some hold and fired markers and a few seconds of time for a captain to make a decision nothing else needs to be changed. Overall the cloaking rules stay the same, and the target locking process stays the same.


I think both your ideas add more complexity to the situation, without really adding any more enjoyment or "realism" to the game. I know it's hard to beleive, but I prefer my simpler solution posted earlier.

Issue errata for the cloaking action that says. "During the Combat Phase, instead of performing an attack, your ship may cloak." If your ships is cloaked during the Activation Phase from a previous turn, nothing changes in the game. If it isn't, then you have to wait until it's your step during combat before cloaking, and your ship receives no bonuses from being cloaked until you do.

It prevents ships cloaking and attacking in the same turn, which just doesn't feel right anyway. It rewards both higher skilled captains and captains with initiative, by allowing them to cloak first. And, gets rid of the need to place a cloak token on the base of your ship, because your ship is either fully cloaked or not.

No new tokens or steps or anything else.
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Larry DeStefano
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NickH wrote:
Sorry Larry, I would not be in favour of this, I think it adds a lot more 'game' and only a limited amount of 'thematic'.

I am very much interested in improving the thematic content of the game with minimal added rule and play complexity.
EG my contribution to this discussion house-ruled directional shields PERFECTED

I consider the fixed initiative system to be one of the games weakest points as a simulation of the problems of real-world combat (yes, I know, its SciFi but). However I can't think of anything better that isn't potentially a lot more complicated

My view of the classic attacked from cloaked scenario is that the Federation ship is actually attacking first on the NEXT turn using a lock-on obtained before the enemy could fully re-cloak. My suggestion is that you try my house rules from the thread with ships having 2 actions each turn but more things to do.


Read your shield rule idea.....Read it before just read it again, and the idea looks good...even printed the counters....I don't see were my rule idea is anymore complicated or gamey then what your suggesting IMHO. could try both!!!!!
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Larry DeStefano
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coastcityo wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
NickH wrote:
Sorry Larry, I would not be in favour of this, I think it adds a lot more 'game' and only a limited amount of 'thematic'.

I am very much interested in improving the thematic content of the game with minimal added rule and play complexity.
EG my contribution to this discussion house-ruled directional shields PERFECTED

I consider the fixed initiative system to be one of the games weakest points as a simulation of the problems of real-world combat (yes, I know, its SciFi but). However I can't think of anything better that isn't potentially a lot more complicated

My view of the classic attacked from cloaked scenario is that the Federation ship is actually attacking first on the NEXT turn using a lock-on obtained before the enemy could fully re-cloak. My suggestion is that you try my house rules from the thread with ships having 2 actions each turn but more things to do.


I believe this rule is not anymore gamey then any other part of the "game", we are playing a game after all. The question I believe is how hard would it be to implement and does it make more changes necessary. Other then some hold and fired markers and a few seconds of time for a captain to make a decision nothing else needs to be changed. Overall the cloaking rules stay the same, and the target locking process stays the same.


I think both your ideas add more complexity to the situation, without really adding any more enjoyment or "realism" to the game. I know it's hard to beleive, but I prefer my simpler solution posted earlier.

Issue errata for the cloaking action that says. "During the Combat Phase, instead of performing an attack, your ship may cloak." If your ships is cloaked during the Activation Phase from a previous turn, nothing changes in the game. If it isn't, then you have to wait until it's your step during combat before cloaking, and your ship receives no bonuses from being cloaked until you do.

It prevents ships cloaking and attacking in the same turn, which just doesn't feel right anyway. It rewards both higher skilled captains and captains with initiative, by allowing them to cloak first. And, gets rid of the need to place a cloak token on the base of your ship, because your ship is either fully cloaked or not.

No new tokens or steps or anything else.


Sounds like your angling along the same line I'm doing. My way would also reward higher skill captains as well.. A romulan task force with higher captains then the target would now wait force the lower captains to shoot first...decloak attack and then in the activation phase recloak..the effect would match what we already see in the game... Now I know the roms have weak skippers per se but the Klingons are right up there. I believe you would see less use of generic captains and would encourage the cloaking vessels to move for better attack positions, which kinda matches what we see in some of the episodes...Again this is just an idea ....try it if you like...and if you do please post the result...This is a great game and I think with the input we are getting and good honest feedback we could make it a classic with a lot more stuff coming down the road!!!!!!!

Live long and prosper
 
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Nick Hawkins
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Thanks to everyone who took the time to read the thread on split shields started by Soapwater that I've added my thematic house rules to.

First, to clarify. my rules are not trying to be simpler or to 'correct' the balance of OP play. Their purpose is to improves the thematic feel of the game whilst adding only a small amount of complexity.


hadrian132:
My concern with allowing higher initiative captains to defer their shot is not that the suggested rule is gamey but that it could be exploited by gamers more intent on winning than enjoying the experience. It could also significantly affect how combat phase upgrades interact with each other.


coastcityo:
Your idea has merit as a 'quick fix' for OP type play, I don't believe it's any more, or less thematic that the published rules. It would radically change the action economy of the game and might require significant redrafting of other rules.
Effectively you are turning cloaking into an 'attack'. Had you thought of turning attacks into actions then have ships move activate in initiative order? (not something I'm recommending).


Another 'quick fix' solution (that I thought of while typing this reply) could be require ships to declare if they are cloaking during the planning phase. This might be done by hiding a Cloak token under the ship's manoeuvre dial, green side up = cloak. I'm not sure if this is an improvement at all, just throwing the idea in.


As a game/puzzle I think the published system works well enough, it is easy to teach and is robust for OP play. As a thematic simulation I think it fails because initiative order is completely deterministic, there is no space for Murphy's Law to add what Clausewitz called 'friction'.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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NickH wrote:
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read the thread on split shields started by Soapwater that I've added my thematic house rules to.

First, to clarify. my rules are not trying to be simpler or to 'correct' the balance of OP play. Their purpose is to improves the thematic feel of the game whilst adding only a small amount of complexity.


hadrian132:
My concern with allowing higher initiative captains to defer their shot is not that the suggested rule is gamey but that it could be exploited by gamers more intent on winning than enjoying the experience. It could also significantly affect how combat phase upgrades interact with each other.


coastcityo:
Your idea has merit as a 'quick fix' for OP type play, I don't believe it's any more, or less thematic that the published rules. It would radically change the action economy of the game and might require significant redrafting of other rules.
Effectively you are turning cloaking into an 'attack'. Had you thought of turning attacks into actions then have ships move activate in initiative order? (not something I'm recommending).


Another 'quick fix' solution (that I thought of while typing this reply) could be require ships to declare if they are cloaking during the planning phase. This might be done by hiding a Cloak token under the ship's manoeuvre dial, green side up = cloak. I'm not sure if this is an improvement at all, just throwing the idea in.


As a game/puzzle I think the published system works well enough, it is easy to teach and is robust for OP play. As a thematic simulation I think it fails because initiative order is completely deterministic, there is no space for Murphy's Law to add what Clausewitz called 'friction'.

I agree with the lack of "friction" as well in the planning phase...Thank you for reading the threads. I thought of shaking up init rules and without getting to radical. I my idea was the simplest way to address a "percieved" game imbalance with cloaking. Plus i think it reflected cloaking better, but it is not a panacea. BTW I'm not one of those players who percieve that the cloaking rules are unbalanced, but i have heard and read that complaint many times, and i'm getting tired of saying "but when you keep cloaking you lose action ability" or "when cloaking you can get hit with criticals easier" LOL....
 
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Larry DeStefano
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hadrian132 wrote:
NickH wrote:
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read the thread on split shields started by Soapwater that I've added my thematic house rules to.

First, to clarify. my rules are not trying to be simpler or to 'correct' the balance of OP play. Their purpose is to improves the thematic feel of the game whilst adding only a small amount of complexity.


hadrian132:
My concern with allowing higher initiative captains to defer their shot is not that the suggested rule is gamey but that it could be exploited by gamers more intent on winning than enjoying the experience. It could also significantly affect how combat phase upgrades interact with each other.


coastcityo:
Your idea has merit as a 'quick fix' for OP type play, I don't believe it's any more, or less thematic that the published rules. It would radically change the action economy of the game and might require significant redrafting of other rules.
Effectively you are turning cloaking into an 'attack'. Had you thought of turning attacks into actions then have ships move activate in initiative order? (not something I'm recommending).


Another 'quick fix' solution (that I thought of while typing this reply) could be require ships to declare if they are cloaking during the planning phase. This might be done by hiding a Cloak token under the ship's manoeuvre dial, green side up = cloak. I'm not sure if this is an improvement at all, just throwing the idea in.


As a game/puzzle I think the published system works well enough, it is easy to teach and is robust for OP play. As a thematic simulation I think it fails because initiative order is completely deterministic, there is no space for Murphy's Law to add what Clausewitz called 'friction'.

I agree with the lack of "friction" as well in the planning phase...Thank you for reading the threads. I thought of shaking up init rules and without getting to radical. I my idea was the simplest way to address a "percieved" game imbalance with cloaking. Plus i think it reflected cloaking better, but it is not a panacea. BTW I'm not one of those players who percieve that the cloaking rules are unbalanced, but i have heard and read that complaint many times, and i'm getting tired of saying "but when you keep cloaking you lose action ability" or "when cloaking you can get hit with criticals easier" LOL....


I agree with the lack of "friction" as well in the planning phase...Thank you for reading the threads. I thought of shaking up init rules and without getting to radical. I my idea was the simplest way to address a "percieved" game imbalance with cloaking. Plus i think it reflected cloaking better, but it is not a panacea. BTW I'm not one of those players who percieve that the cloaking rules are unbalanced, but i have heard and read that complaint many times, and i'm getting tired of saying "but when you keep cloaking you lose action ability" or "when cloaking you can get hit with criticals easier" LOL....
 
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Nick Hawkins
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hadrian132 wrote:
I agree with the lack of "friction" as well in the planning phase...Thank you for reading the threads. I thought of shaking up init rules and without getting to radical. I my idea was the simplest way to address a "percieved" game imbalance with cloaking. Plus i think it reflected cloaking better, but it is not a panacea. BTW I'm not one of those players who percieve that the cloaking rules are unbalanced, but i have heard and read that complaint many times, and i'm getting tired of saying "but when you keep cloaking you lose action ability" or "when cloaking you can get hit with criticals easier" LOL....

I agree, the criticals argument looks a bit weak when you compare Polarised Hull Plating (multi-use, passive, 2 points) with Antimatter Mines (single use, replaces an attack, 5 points) cry


I'm a miniatures war gamer at heart, with a particular interest in how friction and other 'soft' factors affect battle rather than in the minutiae of weapons technology. For me Attack Wing operates at the right level of abstraction, it just needs shaking up a bit.

OK, an idea, how about reversing the activation and combat phases in a round?
1. Planning phase
2. Combat phase (high-low captains)
3. 'End' Phase (mainly token clean-up)
4. Activation phase (low-high captains)

That way you have to plan your move without knowing the outcome of combat making things more risky. (EDIT, removed some stuff about Target Locks that wasn't relevant.)

The downside of this approach is that it will require some specific re-interpretations for certain upgrade cards (EG Glinn Telle).

An upside is that it IS more thematic, capitol ships fire from know positions, not after an indeterminate amount of manoeuvring cool
 
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Nick Hawkins
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Just thinking through my suggestion for a revised phase order. To avoid having to reinterpret various upgrades and other affects I'll revise my suggestion to:
1) Activation Phase
2) (Forward) Planning Phase
3) Combat Phase
4) End Phase

The key thing is that planning (for the next round) occurs before combat. Think of this as the time it takes huge starships to answer the helm.


I suggest that planning for the first round be part of setup. If you are feeling particularly hardcore it could be done before placing any models on the table devil
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Like were your heading with this...Plus it is easy to test...I'm still leaning towards playing with the cloaking rules. I understand the problems had incorporating them into the game but either they need to be curbed a little bit or the feds/dom need a boost. But I wonder where that will end up...Are we gonna get a tech/ crew member who simply takes away cloaked defense die...If so then they will just become standard builds...and then the counter to THAT will be a standard build and before you know it we will be playing a card game!!!!

I know a little extreme LOLwhistle

I havent even played with the polarized plating yet but that is a gimme when i have a cloaking ship!!!!!
 
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Larry DeStefano
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NickH wrote:
Just thinking through my suggestion for a revised phase order. To avoid having to reinterpret various upgrades and other affects I'll revise my suggestion to:
1) Activation Phase
2) (Forward) Planning Phase
3) Combat Phase
4) End Phase

The key thing is that planning (for the next round) occurs before combat. Think of this as the time it takes huge starships to answer the helm.


I suggest that planning for the first round be part of setup. If you are feeling particularly hardcore it could be done before placing any models on the table devil


One gentlemen posted the idea about rolling for init at the beginning of the turn...It would be die roll (D10) + captains rating. Generating a number between 2-19...Therefore even a lowly generic captain could shoot before Kirk or Picard...????

Does not address the cloaking issue but just throwing it up the flag post....
 
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hadrian132 wrote:
One gentlemen posted the idea about rolling for init at the beginning of the turn...It would be die roll (D10) + captains rating. Generating a number between 2-19...Therefore even a lowly generic captain could shoot before Kirk or Picard...????

Does not address the cloaking issue but just throwing it up the flag post….

Don't know if it was the same thread but I had seen and considered a similar mechanism. I rejected it because:
- It adds another step and requires stuff not provided with the game (2d10).
- The effects on the metagame are hard to predict, I suspect a lot of the points costing may be based on a predictable initiative order.
- Some people will complain it is too random. I'm sort of in this camp, a level 7-9 captain would never get outwitted by a freighter captain (a zero).

If you want a simple randomisation mechanism then rolling one or more Fudge Dice for each captain and using the result as a temporary modifier to their initiative might work well.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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NickH wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
One gentlemen posted the idea about rolling for init at the beginning of the turn...It would be die roll (D10) + captains rating. Generating a number between 2-19...Therefore even a lowly generic captain could shoot before Kirk or Picard...????

Does not address the cloaking issue but just throwing it up the flag post….

Don't know if it was the same thread but I had seen and considered a similar mechanism. I rejected it because:
- It adds another step and requires stuff not provided with the game (2d10).
- The effects on the metagame are hard to predict, I suspect a lot of the points costing may be based on a predictable initiative order.
- Some people will complain it is too random. I'm sort of in this camp, a level 7-9 captain would never get outwitted by a freighter captain (a zero).

If you want a simple randomisation mechanism then rolling one or more Fudge Dice for each captain and using the result as a temporary modifier to their initiative might work well.


I dont think the costing factor is overpowering because you buy what you want and they dont diff. the cards according to the captains skill level...no rule says you cant load up a generic captaindevil Why would you I have no idea.... And most of the time(90+%) Kirk should beat a generic....Would give the mid range captains a shot though...Would add another phase and some time but with 3 (on average)ships per side hopefully not that much time...

Live long and prosper dudeslaugh
 
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Larry DeStefano
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charles_skrobis wrote:
I'm not sure I like this for the other effects it would have on firing, before going to the whole cloaking thing.

So first and foremost, builds tend to have various captains and skills, so you can preplan out your firing order. This makes things like concussive charges which can take a ships cloaked token, which usually needs a high skill captain to use so that every following ship can make use of the effect, but now would it's shields come up instead of staying down as they do now, why shouldn't I put this with a lower skill captain with a to hit effect, and destroy them with High skill captains afterwards? Can we use this in action and move order so that my low skill captain can hold his move and action till after the everyone else has gone? How do you help the dominion who was using an anti-proton scan against the cloaked ship that didn't have shields, who now decided it does and they get no bonus from their tech? And the questions about such go on and on because the game fundamentally changes.

The next big thing I see is that this lets people get around the bonus to cloaking, and there's really no good way to do that. Given that you require shields to disable to cloak, anything that takes away the agility dice and puts their shields back up, can take away a ship's option to cloak for the entire game. So while this is a thematic oriented idea, it doesn't mesh well with the actual game play. Especially when I point out that this really just makes the federation better who have anti-matter mines for when they're against cloaked, and good damage for when they're not.

Lastly, I would like to know how this isn't going to be a starring contest between players. Cause now the cloaking player holds his attack too, till the point where both players are looking at each other wanting to attack, but not wanting to be the first to do it, over whether or not a ship gets the benefits of cloak at all, and I'd really not want to deal with that without a rule to force someone to do something at some point.


In reply to concussive charges it does not change the card. If you hit you could remove the cloak token and the ship would be uncloaked with no shields still. So you would want a high skill captain to still have it and shoot first, which you kinda do already...no need to put it on a generic...It would be more difficult for a lower skill captain to use well and be effective, which kinda happens already...If you have it on the low man now EVERYBODY else would shoot first, he would fire hit the cloaked ship and BIG DEAL the cloak drops and nobody else can take advantage...So it seems to me the weapon is designed for High skill captains with a bigger rating then the cloaked vessels there hunting. Therefore my rule idea would not have that drastic effect.

In regards to no longer using cloak....Why??? You still get to use sensor echo and with high skill captains you may well get to still attack after you forced the other captain to shoot at you while you CHOOSE to remain cloaked. I believe it would call for a different style of play and maybe more skill, but heh dont like it dont use it..

Live long and prosper!!!!

 
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Dan Knight
United Kingdom
Huddersfield
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On the subject of cloaking...


In all seriousness, this seems to pop up every week. So far I haven't actually found an issue with cloaking.

There are many, many ways to get enough attack to put pressure on a cloaked fleet, Dealing with cloaking is just a matter of finding the right tactics. Of which there are many, many suggestions in the plethora of cloaking threads.

What amuses me most about cloaking, is that the best answer available (Cloaked Mines) has an equal number of people complaining about IT. cool
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Bloomingburg
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Whizzwang wrote:
On the subject of cloaking...


In all seriousness, this seems to pop up every week. So far I haven't actually found an issue with cloaking.

There are many, many ways to get enough attack to put pressure on a cloaked fleet, Dealing with cloaking is just a matter of finding the right tactics. Of which there are many, many suggestions in the plethora of cloaking threads.

What amuses me most about cloaking, is that the best answer available (Cloaked Mines) has an equal number of people complaining about IT. cool


I tend to agree that i havent had real issues with cloaking...I have beaten cloaked fleets with the feds....I like playing pure factions which tends to help...However I have seen threads were players have made some good cases for their points....I kinda suggested this rule as something that would fit more thematically while trying to minimize changes to the basics of the game....I would like someone, (I would if I could figure out how), to do a survey and statiscal analysis of the cloaking issue with data from the players to see if there is any truth to this...It seems that in the larger OP sessions, the final rounds tend to be Klingon/Romulan combos..????
 
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Nick Hawkins
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Willingham
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I've consolidated my thematic house rules and fore/aft shield counters (2 variants) into Nick H's thematic house rules for Attack Wing

All feedback welcome, I don't even mind if you prefer port/starboard shields cool
But please don't flog horses, alive or dead shake
 
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