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Subject: Building Squadrons to Four Different Price-Points rss

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Sheldon Morris
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Hello folks! I'm relatively new to this awesome game but I thought I'd share something that I've been playing around with.

First, some background. So far I'm the only one of my gaming friends that owns this game. To make it easier for them I thought it would be great if I had a bunch of pre-built squadron lists to choose from. After all, I jumped into this game with both feet and have a descent collection already, and one that I know will continue to expand.

I know that 100-point squads are a basic standard, but I find that sometimes smaller ones are fun too, especially when we have less time. Therefore I decided that I should make some smaller costing squads as well.

That's when it hit me - Why don't I create squads that can be played at various price-points? Conceptually, these are "single squadrons" that exist at different levels. I start with a basic idea or pilot and continue to expand on that. I decided on 60, 75, 100, and 135 price-points. Here's an example of what I mean:

Squadron: "Rebel Top Guns"

@ 60-Points
30 Wedge Antillies / X-Wing [Determination]
30 Luke Skywalker / X-Wing [Elusiveness]

@ 75-Points
37 Wedge Antillies / X-Wing [Determination, Proton Torpedoes, R2-F2]
38 Luke Skywalker / X-Wing [Elusiveness, Proton Torpedoes, R2-D2]

@ 100-Points
33 Wedge Antillies / X-Wing [Determination, R2-F2]
34 Luke Skywalker / X-Wing [Elusiveness, R2-D2]
33 Tycho Celchu / A-Wing [Push the Limit, Concussion Missiles]

@ 135-Points
38 Ten Numb / B-Wing [Marksmanship, Engine Upgrade]
33 Wedge Antillies / X-Wing [Determination, R2-F2]
34 Luke Skywalker / X-Wing [Elusiveness, R2-D2]
29 Tycho Celchu / A-Wing [Push the Limit]


(I'm sure there are better builds that could have been created, but my goal wasn't to win tournaments. it's just to have some fun with friends.)

The idea with this squad was to use the four highest skill-value pilots. The idea of these lists in general is to begin with a particular pilot and/or idea and then *grow* it through the other levels. I'm attempting to maintain the same feel for the squad throughout the point levels.

Hopefully, when we want to have a game, we can pick a squad regardless of what point cost we want to play at, instead of having a whole bunch of squads for each level.


If you did want to use this in a more competitive format, it would be interesting to create lists and then have to use them against your opponent's list at each level. So you'd play your 60-pointers first, then your 75-pointers, 100's, and 135's, for a total of 4 matches. You'd have to figure out a scoring system though.

I'd love to see what other multi-lists people might come up with!


Edit: The Rules (well, they're really more like guidelines).
As you expand the squadron from one point-cost level to the next, you can add ships/pilots but not remove or replace them unless they are "generic" pilots; i.e. non-unique pilots. These generic pilots can be replaced as long as the replacement is of the same ship type and can be replaced with either another generic pilot or a unique one. Upgrades can be added/removed/changed as desired, and for cost consideration, although I generally try to keep it close when possible.
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Swampy Crocker
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_nrep.asp?eidm=132#esc...

They are actually doing something very similar at world's(or did, I think they played it the other day).
Point values are different from yours. Others have said it would be good if you are starting a league with new players. Instead of having to buy all the ships at once, you can start with a few and then buy more over the course of the next few weeks as the tournament "escalates."
 
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Sheldon Morris
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SwampMonster wrote:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_nrep.asp?eidm=132#esc...

They are actually doing something very similar at world's(or did, I think they played it the other day).
Point values are different from yours. Others have said it would be good if you are starting a league with new players. Instead of having to buy all the ships at once, you can start with a few and then buy more over the course of the next few weeks as the tournament "escalates."

Ya, that is fairly similar in that they use multiple point values.

The difference is that I'm tring to use the "same squad" that "grows" through the point values. From what I can tell people can use any four squads in the Escalation Tournaments (e.g x-wings in one squad and then b-wings and a-wings in the next).
 
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Swampy Crocker
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You have to keep fifty percent of the previous squad.
I.E. if you run Wedge + Luke with an upgrade to make them each thirty total points you have to keep one or the other. They could vary the rules to make it so you keep the same "base" squads from point value to point value, but that would feel limiting to me. In a 60 point squad, I'd be more likely to run three cheap ships (2x rookie + a prototype pilot and maybe a 1pt astromech), but when I get up to 90, I'd drop a rookie and upgrade to more expensive higher PS ships. Otherwise, at 60 the imperials could just run 5x Academy pilots, then just throw howlrunner and some upgrades on ships at the next thirty points and always have an advantage because there can be more synergy across point values as opposed to rebels who struggle to make the points and keep all the ships throughout. Thirty points is less than some rebel ships which limits your options as you go up in point values.
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Sheldon Morris
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SwampMonster wrote:
You have to keep fifty percent of the previous squad.

Ah, so the basic concept I (thought I) came up with is already there.

The only difference is that I didn't create them with tournaments in mind, just flavour.

So then (if I'm so fortunate to get some interest and participation), I'd like to continue this other people's lists as well as my own. The goal is not to make a superior squad to crush all enemies, but rather just good squads with flavour.

That could be a squad centred around a particular pilot or two with growing capabilities and support. That's usually the way I approached them.

Now admittedly, I'm no expert at this game and haven't really delved into any particular strategies. That's why I'd be interested to see what others would do using this concept. So how bad is my first example squadron?

Quote:
Otherwise, at 60 the imperials could just run 5x Academy pilots, then just throw howlrunner and some upgrades on ships at the next thirty points...

This kind of tactic never crossed my mind because, first of all, I don't have that many TIE Fighters, and second, I'm the only one that would be bringing the game! Naturally, all my squads are limited to what I own.
 
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Swampy Crocker
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If we aren't allowing the option to drop anything from point total to point total, and using the ones you listed I'd try this out:

At 60 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)

At 75 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)

At 100 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)
Turr Phenirr (25pts)

At 135 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)
Turr Phenirr (25pts)
Darth Vader + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (35pts)

Your point values benefit the rebel list you made over my choices(I wanted to throw in some bombers, but had to start with them). This was the best I could come up with following your pattern. Turr Phenirr would benefit from either PTL or VI, and I actually prefer Sootnir Fel(Fel + PTL is my guilty addiction). I do hope to go an escalation tournament with my gaming group eventually, but will probably follow the FFG format.
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Sheldon Morris
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SwampMonster wrote:
If we aren't allowing the option to drop anything from point total to point total...

I probably should have specified the "rules" I went by. They're quite simple. I could add ships/pilots but not remove or replace them. Upgrades could be added/removed/changed as desired, and for cost consideration, although I generally tried to keep it close when possible.

Quote:
...using the ones you listed I'd try this out:

At 60 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)

At 75 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)

At 100 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)
Turr Phenirr (25pts)

At 135 points
3x Academy Pilot (36pts)
Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (24pts)
Night Beast (15pts)
Turr Phenirr (25pts)
Darth Vader + Swarm Tactics + Engine Upgrade (35pts)

I'd love to try something like this but I only have 3 TIE fighters so far. I'm trying to get at least 1 of every expansion before getting any duplicates, including a second base set. I'm getting close though; only need the y-wing, TIE advanced, and b-wing. So for that reason also my lists would differ from many other people's.

Quote:
Your point values benefit the rebel list you made over my choices(I wanted to throw in some bombers, but had to start with them).

You wouldn't have to start with a bomber right from the start (if that's what you meant). But this raises a question: Would a 60-point squad consisting of a loaded TIE Bomber along with a TIE Fighter be feasible (in causal play)?

Thanks for conversation, by the way!
 
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Swampy Crocker
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Hugin wrote:

I probably should have specified the "rules" I went by. They're quite simple. I could add ships/pilots but not remove or replace them. Upgrades could be added/removed/changed as desired, and for cost consideration, although I generally tried to keep it close when possible.

I'd love to try something like this but I only have 3 TIE fighters so far. I'm trying to get at least 1 of every expansion before getting any duplicates, including a second base set. I'm getting close though; only need the y-wing, TIE advanced, and b-wing. So for that reason also my lists would differ from many other people's.


You wouldn't have to start with a bomber right from the start (if that's what you meant). But this raises a question: Would a 60-point squad consisting of a loaded TIE Bomber along with a TIE Fighter be feasible (in causal play)?

Thanks for conversation, by the way!


I own 2x core sets and 1x of each expansion so it does limit my builds some compared to my buddy.

The best option I see for a bomber is Rhymer + PTL + Homing + Seismic and 2x Academy Pilots at 60 points. Unfortunately at 75 you have to decide whether you want more ships or more on Rhymer. I suppose you could run Howlrunner + Squad or something else to compliment Rhymer, but then you sacrifice ship numbers. I'm not a fan of low PS bombers, especially if I was against 2 high PS rebels. Luke and Wedge could destroy them on the first pass with lucky rolls and now you're down to one ship and no secondaries fired from the bomber. At 75 points I have no idea where to go though. I guess a Black Squadron + DTF might work to give Rhymer more life. At 100 I changed the payload on Rhymer to 2x concussion and added an Alpha Squadron(interceptor).
At 135 I throw in Sootnir + PTL(although I'd have to borrow the second one) + Stealth and a seismic charge on Rhymer.

The growth of the lists makes me nervous, just because there is so much stock in Rhymer. The Interceptors can run around to split the rebel forces(hopefully) or beat up with 3x attack and 3x agility(4 on Sootnir). The academies just have to action deny in the later list, but they need to strip shields at 60 points for me to have any real confidence.

I too am enjoying the conversation, although there are several members who probably have a lot better advice than me on this.
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Sheldon Morris
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Hugin wrote:
I probably should have specified the "rules" I went by. They're quite simple. I could add ships/pilots but not remove or replace them. Upgrades could be added/removed/changed as desired, and for cost consideration, although I generally tried to keep it close when possible.

Looks like I lied. I have swapped out non-unique pilots for other non-unique pilots. For example, I did a list that used Academy pilots that were replaced by Obsidian pilots. So lets just say you can't remove unique pilots but the non-unique ones can be as long as it's still the same type of ship.

SwampMonster wrote:

The best option I see for a bomber is Rhymer + PTL + Homing + Seismic and 2x Academy Pilots at 60 points. Unfortunately at 75 you have to decide whether you want more ships or more on Rhymer.

Interesting. I Have a squadron that I called "Rhymer's Heavy TIE Bomber". It's first iteration had him loaded almost to the gills and escorted by an single Academy pilot. I changed it 2 Academy's so now it goes:
At 60 points
(35) Major Rhymer / TIE Bomber [Veteran Instincts, Proton Torpedoes, Concussion Missiles]
(13) Obsidian Sq. Pilot / TIE Fighter
(12) Academy Pilot / TIE Fighter

At 75 points
(50) Major Rhymer / TIE Bomber [Veteran Instincts, Proton Torpedoes, Adv. Proton Torpedoes, Cluster Missiles, Concussion Missiles, Proton Bombs]
(13) Obsidian Sq. Pilot / TIE Fighter
(12) Academy Pilot / TIE Fighter

As you can see, I chose to go with more on Rhymer, but that's because that's the flavour I wanted for this squadron. I doubt that it would hold up against someone who knew how to make good squads but it 'works' for us so far because none of my squads are great (I'd imagine).

Quote:
I too am enjoying the conversation, although there are several members who probably have a lot better advice than me on this.

You're already at a far advanced level than I am. I've only played a small handful of games so far. We're far too immersed into the flavour of the theme, and the fun of the dog-fighting, to get too heavily into the strategies of building powerful squads. I just hope that they're interesting to play and give many different choices.
 
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Davyd A
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Hugin wrote:

Looks like I lied. I have swapped out non-unique pilots for other non-unique pilots. For example, I did a list that used Academy pilots that were replaced by Obsidian pilots. So lets just say you can't remove unique pilots but the non-unique ones can be as long as it's still the same type of ship.


Might I suggest you set it so that you can replace a generic with either a more expensive generic in the same ship, or a unique in the same ship?

So at 60 points, I might then fly 2x Tempest Squadron with Shield Upgrade and Homing Missiles, but at 75 points I'll change that to Vader with Squad Leader, Engine Upgrade and Homers and Storm with Engine and Homers, and at 100 points throw in a couple of eyeballs to round it out.

Lets one build up to the expensive uniques.
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Sheldon Morris
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Vagabond Elf wrote:
Might I suggest you set it so that you can replace a generic with either a more expensive generic in the same ship, or a unique in the same ship?

So at 60 points, I might then fly 2x Tempest Squadron with Shield Upgrade and Homing Missiles, but at 75 points I'll change that to Vader with Squad Leader, Engine Upgrade and Homers and Storm with Engine and Homers, and at 100 points throw in a couple of eyeballs to round it out.

Lets one build up to the expensive uniques.

That's not a bad idea and I might do that sometimes. I like the restriction of 'same ship' from a flavour viewpoint.

Edit: The only thing that has kept me from doing that is that the original concept of these multi-cost squads was to give a player the choice of playing a squad with a particular pilot across each level. So if someone wanted to play with "the Vader squad" he would have Vader at each level.

Of course the easy way around that is to have a "Vader squad" and different squad where Vader 'joins' in later, as you mentioned. The second squad would just be one with a different theme/flavour.

So ya, I like your suggestion!
 
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Swampy Crocker
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Vagabon'd idea is actually really awesome. I was recently looking at some campaign/rpg style rules for X-wing that looked really awesome. Each side starts with one certain ship, with a GM playing the opposing side for leveling up/gaining points to upgrade. Upgrades and unique pilots are swappable if you have them, allowing you to customize your build to each campaign mission. Sounds really fun, but relies on teammates like a party in WoW or DnD(I assume, never actually played either of them myself).
I hope to do this or an escalation tournament(maybe both) sometime in my life.
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Sheldon Morris
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SwampMonster wrote:
Vagabon'd idea is actually really awesome. I was recently looking at some campaign/rpg style rules for X-wing that looked really awesome. Each side starts with one certain ship, with a GM playing the opposing side for leveling up/gaining points to upgrade. Upgrades and unique pilots are swappable if you have them, allowing you to customize your build to each campaign mission. Sounds really fun, but relies on teammates like a party in WoW or DnD(I assume, never actually played either of them myself).
I hope to do this or an escalation tournament(maybe both) sometime in my life.

As someone who has played D&D on and off for the past 30 years or so, I'd be game for that! Come to think of it, you could use the X-Wing miniatures game as the basis for space combat resolution in a Star Wars RPG!
 
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