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Subject: Being a jerk with Corporate Troubleshooter rss

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Scott Rubin
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We all know the classic play. The runner runs on your server that has an Archer and a Corporate Troubleshooter. You rez and use the troubleshooter during 2.3 on the timing chart. The runner has to encounter the Archer. They either break the whole thing, or they don't. If you win, you get two credits, trash two programs, and ETR. If you lose, they keep going.

But maybe, just maybe, if the rules work the way I think they do, that is the wrong play. When you boost the archer during 2.3 the runner may lose some programs, but they keep all their credits. You want to drain their credits as well. Can it be done?

So you rez the Archer and the troubleshooter during 2.3 since that is your last rez window. Then you get to 3.1. To keep the example simple, we'll say the runner has a pipeline and is going to use plain old credits to break the archer. You haven't used troubleshooter yet! You can still use it during 3.1 paid ability window, right?! The runner sees the troubleshooter, though. It's no secret to them.

The runner now has two choices. One, they could let the archer hit them and let you keep the troubleshooter. WIN! Two, they can start breaking. They pump the pipeline up to 6 strength at a cost of ten credits. Now before they break any subroutines you hit the troubleshooter! It's still 3.1, you can still use paid abilities. Not only did the runner get hit by the archer, but they also lost a bunch of credits (or maybe datasucker virus counters).

As long as you have enough credits to win the troubleshoot, you probably don't even have to use it. You just have to rez it. The runner can either let you hit with the Archer and keep your shooter, or they can lose a bunch of credits to force you to use it. Until they have spent enough resources to start breaking subroutines, there's no reason to actually activate the troubleshooter yet.

Have we all been playing this wrong? Is my thinking legit?
 
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Tim Silver
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Wouldn't the runner have the priority to do all of their paid abilities first, therefore pumping the Pipeline and breaking subroutines all in the same window before the corp would have a chance to react with paid abilities of their own?
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David Kempe-Cook
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Players get the chance to use abilities in turn order until both players pass. When the Runner starts using their icebreakers, they can completely break the subroutines before you get a chance to pump if you wait that long. This being the case, you would have a high strength Archer that the Runner has already broken through.
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mplain
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Rulebook p.21 wrote:
Timing Priority
Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn and after each action), the player who is currently taking his turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the other player gets the opportunity to act. When that player is finished, the first player gets the opportunity to act once again.

So basically you can't squeeze your Troubleshooter in between the runner pumping his breaker and breaking subroutines.
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Mike Bialecki
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cmdrsils wrote:
Wouldn't the runner have the priority to do all of their paid abilities first, therefore pumping the Pipeline and breaking subroutines all in the same window before the corp would have a chance to react with paid abilities of their own?


Yep. At any paid action and/or conditional effect window during a run, the Runner has control first and resolves any conditionals and/or performs as many paid actions as she wants, then control moves to the Corporation who does the same. After each side has had control once, control alternates between the two players until one of the players passes, which then concludes that specific step (note: if the corporation passed for her first opportunity, the step is immediately finished). Example 1: Runner passes. Corporation passes. Step finished. Example 2: Runner performs actions. Corporation passes. Step finished. Example 3: Runner performs actions. Corporation performs actions. Runner performs actions. Corporation performs actions. Runner passes. Step finished.

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Scott Rubin
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So the priority doesn't pass back and forth after each paid ability? It passes back only when they let you have it back?

I'm cool with that rule. Not arguing against it. But now I've got another question. A lot of rules explanations here keep talking about the paid ability priorities. Where in the rulebook or FAQ are these rules actually written down? People talk about them as if they are the letter of the law, but I've never seen them in writing anywhere besides forum posts.
 
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Ony Moose
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The only time you can use a Troubleshooter usefully during 3.1 is if you have something like Woodcutter/Tyrant and a banked AstroScript Pilot Program counter.

Then you boost the strength and add a subroutine(which isn't broken yet) then priority returns to the runner and they can choose to pay the extra to boost the strength and break if they want to.
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Scott Forster
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That would work great if this were Magic.

But this isn't Magic.
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Andy Mills
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Apreche wrote:
So the priority doesn't pass back and forth after each paid ability? It passes back only when they let you have it back?

I'm cool with that rule. Not arguing against it. But now I've got another question. A lot of rules explanations here keep talking about the paid ability priorities. Where in the rulebook or FAQ are these rules actually written down? People talk about them as if they are the letter of the law, but I've never seen them in writing anywhere besides forum posts.


mplain's quote is from p.21 of the rulebook, 2 posts above yours.
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Mike Bialecki
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Apreche wrote:
So the priority doesn't pass back and forth after each paid ability? It passes back only when they let you have it back?

I'm cool with that rule. Not arguing against it. But now I've got another question. A lot of rules explanations here keep talking about the paid ability priorities. Where in the rulebook or FAQ are these rules actually written down? People talk about them as if they are the letter of the law, but I've never seen them in writing anywhere besides forum posts.


Page 21 of the Rulebook "Timing Priority." Pretty straight forward.

ninja Dang you guys are fast!
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Andrew Keddie
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Kandiru wrote:
The only time you can use a Troubleshooter usefully during 3.1 is if you have something like Woodcutter/Tyrant and a banked AstroScript Pilot Program counter.

Then you boost the strength and add a subroutine(which isn't broken yet) then priority returns to the runner and they can choose to pay the extra to boost the strength and break if they want to.


That could be a really dirty play if they walked through a Chum to get to the Woodcutter...

Rare you'll see that exact situation though.
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Scott Rubin
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So let it be written. So let it be done.

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Michael Redston
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Can you False Lead the runner after they encounter an Ichi, but before they had the opportunity to click past him? I assume you can?
 
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Derrick Billings
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yes, you could sack FL in step 2.3, after they've committed to continuing, and before or after you rez the ice.

Or, you could be trickier and sack it in 2.1, so that would have them be down two clicks before they commit to continuing. That might make them jack out, which is nice because nasty as it is, Ichis don't end the run. Could make the difference between that and game point.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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kroen wrote:
Can you False Lead the runner after they encounter an Ichi, but before they had the opportunity to click past him? I assume you can?


You could use false lead immediately after you rez, so yes. Dirty play... I like it
 
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Ony Moose
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kroen wrote:
Can you False Lead the runner after they encounter an Ichi, but before they had the opportunity to click past him? I assume you can?


No, once they encounter Ichi it is too late. You can do this when they approach Ichi, either straight after you rez him or when you would rez him if he was already rezzed, which is after the chance to jackout. Once the runner encounters an Ice, they get the first chance to use paid abilities, and so will break before the corp gets the chance to false-lead. The only thing you can do usefully during the encounter is Tyr's Hand (and NiseiMKII on a Chum->CellPortal to save 5C dezrezzing the cell portal if they were going to eat the damage.)
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Derrick Billings
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Kandiru wrote:
kroen wrote:
Can you False Lead the runner after they encounter an Ichi, but before they had the opportunity to click past him? I assume you can?


No, once they encounter Ichi it is too late. You can do this when they approach Ichi, either straight after you rez him or when you would rez him if he was already rezzed, which is after the chance to jackout. Once the runner encounters an Ice, they get the first chance to use paid abilities, and so will break before the corp gets the chance to false-lead. The only thing you can do usefully during the encounter is Tyr's Hand (and NiseiMKII on a Chum->CellPortal to save 5C dezrezzing the cell portal if they were going to eat the damage.)


Wrong.

Assume that the runner has just finished going through, say, a Pop Up Window and has two clicks.

3.2
----if there is another piece of ice protecting the server, go to [2]----

2.1--
RP: I have no paid abilities to use.
CP: Me neither.

2.2--
CP: Do you continue?
RP: Yes, I continue.

2.3
CP: I pay and rez Ichi. Do you have any Paid abilities to trigger?
RP: Can I boost and break using my breaker?
CP: Not yet. Anything not involving your icebreaker?
RP: I guess not.
CP: Okay, I pay and Rez Corporate troubleshooter. How many credits you got?
RP: ...seven.
CP: Okay, so, since you would need to boost Crypsis by 4 to break, I will activate Corporate Troubleshooter and pay four credits to boost Ichi to 8 strength.
RP: Well, darn. I guess I'll click through him then.
CP: Not yet. I am going to trigger False Lead. You now have zero clicks. I have no further actions.

2.4
-----If the approached ice is REZZED, go to [3]----

3.1
RP: Well, I encounter the ice now. I can't boost Crypsis enough and I don't have any clicks.
CP: Nope. Sucks to be you.

3.2
RP: FML.
CP: Boom. Trash Crypsis, Trash that Parasite over there, Trace 1 for brain damage and tag. I do not boost.
RP: Thank God for small blessings.
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Wesley Chan
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Grimwalker wrote:

3.2
RP: FML.
CP: Boom. Trash Crypsis, Trash that Parasite over there, Trace 1 for brain damage and tag. I do not boost.
RP: Thank God for small blessings.

LOL
I feel like this is always the train of thought for people who faceplant into Ichi. Do any corps ever boost that trace anyway? I feel like I'm usually too poor after the 5 rez cost.
 
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Matt
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Apreche wrote:
So let it be written. So let it be done.



TYRANT?!
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Ony Moose
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Grimwalker wrote:

2.3
CP: I pay and rez Ichi. Do you have any Paid abilities to trigger?
RP: Can I boost and break using my breaker?
CP: Not yet. Anything not involving your icebreaker?
RP: I guess not.
CP: Okay, I pay and Rez Corporate troubleshooter. How many credits you got?
RP:Since both players have had a chance to act, and one has passed we now go straight to the next step. 3.1
3.1
RP: Well, I encounter the ice now. I have plenty of credits and 2 clicks to break Ichi
CP: If only I hadn't passed at the wrong time. FML.


Actually as written this is wrong, you have to use the Troubleshooter and False leads when you rez Ichi, if you pass as you did and the runner passes the corp doesn't get a second chance to use paid abilities and the game moves onto step 3 the encounter, then the runner can break/use clicks before the corp can use anything.
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Wesley Chan
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Kandiru wrote:
Grimwalker wrote:

2.3
CP: I pay and rez Ichi. Do you have any Paid abilities to trigger?
RP: Can I boost and break using my breaker?
CP: Not yet. Anything not involving your icebreaker?
RP: I guess not.
CP: Okay, I pay and Rez Corporate troubleshooter. How many credits you got?
RP:Since both players have had a chance to act, and one has passed we now go straight to the next step. 3.1
3.1
RP: Well, I encounter the ice now. I have plenty of credits and 2 clicks to break Ichi
CP: If only I hadn't passed at the wrong time. FML.


Actually as written this is wrong, you have to use the Troubleshooter and False leads when you rez Ichi, if you pass as you did and the runner passes the corp doesn't get a second chance to use paid abilities and the game moves onto step 3 the encounter, then the runner can break/use clicks before the corp can use anything.


This is during a run, though, meaning it's the runner's turn. Doesn't the runner have first chance for abilities? Rezzing isn't a paid ability, so it isn't the corp's initiative.
 
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Ony Moose
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Rezzing is done at the same times as a paid ability, so technically the runner passes first, then the corp rezzes the ice, then the runner passes and so then you move onto the encounter. Its rare the runner wants to use an ability before the corp rezzes, but Cortez Chip might make them want to.
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Derrick Billings
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Kandiru wrote:
Rezzing is done at the same times as a paid ability, so technically the runner passes first, then the corp rezzes the ice, then the runner passes and so then you move onto the encounter. Its rare the runner wants to use an ability before the corp rezzes, but Cortez Chip might make them want to.


Okay, I was reading the timing chart wrong--It looked to me like Ice is Rezzed, then the Active Player (runner) has the chance to trigger abilities, then after he passes, the Corp gets a chance for their actions.

So, really, it would go like this:


Quote:
2.3
CP: Do you have any Paid abilities to trigger?
RP: Not really yet.
CP: Okay, I pay and rez Ichi. Then I pay and Rez Corporate troubleshooter. How many credits you got?
RP: ...seven.
CP: Okay, so, since you would need to boost Crypsis by 4 to break, I will activate Corporate Troubleshooter and pay four credits to boost Ichi to 8 strength.
RP: Well, darn. I guess I'll click through him then.
CP: Not yet, I'm not done. I am going to trigger False Lead. You now have zero clicks. I have no further actions.

2.4
-----If the approached ice is REZZED, go to [3]----

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Ony Moose
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Exactly, its important if the corp wants to Rez a Rototurret and boost its strength with a troubleshooter before the runner drops a clonechip parasite on it, say. Rezzing ice is just one of the things you can do when you can use paid abilities when the runner approaches ice.
 
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Derrick Billings
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Yeah, I get what you're saying--that distinction is particularly important if there's a Chum that they ran through beforehand. I found out that Parasiting chummed ice still results in Net Damage, which makes sense because the runner only has the chance to trigger abilities to deal with *rezzed* ice in step 3.

I think it would be more clear if the Structure of a Run step said

Runner {Paid Abilities}; Corp {Rez Cards}{Paid Abilities}

Saying "ice may be rezzed" at the front of the sentence is confusing and not actually accurate, since the Active player does his stuff before Ice may be rezzed.
 
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