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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Rules

Subject: Flower Power and UN Intervention rss

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Ken Watson
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I've been doing some research on this one, and the answer is not explicitly stated anywhere that I've found, though this canNOT be the only time that this situation has happened:

I'm a US Player under the effects of Flower Power. I have a war card in my hand (Arab-Israeli), and I also have UN Intervention. Can I avoid the 2 VP penalty by playing Arab-Israeli war with UN Intervention? Nothing explicitly says that I can or cannot, but Jason Mathews does state:

"Put another way, after this event is played, every time a war card is played by the US player, the USSR scores 2 VP. This does not apply to war cards whose affects have been cancelled by another event."

Source:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@158.kVChbRa1KB8.14@.1dcf...

But the FAQ only delineates cancellation of the event by Space Race or other event (e.g., Camp David).

Thoughts?
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Conor Hickey
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Could read this one either way but given that UN Intervention explicitly says 'the Event is cancelled' I'd go with no VP being awarded for Flower Power.
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Caerid is just some guy
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I look at it this way: Would the peace-niks be upset at the government if we used our influence in the U.N. to stop a war from happening? Nope. The event being played is U.N. Intervention, not the war, and the U.N. event gives you the ops. No VP for USSR in my opinion.
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Ken Watson
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Thanks for the replies. Your responses are certainly intuitive, and my opponent agreed that cancellation of the event, via any manner, is sufficient to negate the points award to the Soviets.

Happy Gaming!
 
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butik man
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Well I am not rules officials but i think you are wrong. The printing on the card may be updated after this but here is how it stands

Flower Power*:
USSR gains 2 VP for every subsequently
US played "war card" (played as an event
or Operations)
unless played on the space
race.

There is noting about cancellation of the event.
The FAQ implies that if playing the card can be cancelled somehow then the VP is not awarded. Of course playing on Space Race doesn't reward VP as it's explicitly says on the card.

59. Flower Power
Q. When exactly does the USSR gain victory points based on this card?
A. Because of the high ops value of the card, all war cards played for Ops or the EVENT will be subject to the 2 VP penalty unless made
unplayable by a subsequent card. War Cards played on the Space Race will be exempt from the penalty

I would say, that the peace-niks are also upset regardless of the use of the card. The mere word "WAR" gives them creeps.
So UN interventon or not, playing for OPS (other then the sapce race), or playing the event, US is punished with 2 VP. Camp Davis accord doesn't help with the Arab-Israeli WAR card. If played by US, they get punished
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Michael Kiefte
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TwoShedsJackson wrote:
Could read this one either way but given that UN Intervention explicitly says 'the Event is cancelled' I'd go with no VP being awarded for Flower Power.


The more I think about this, the less I'm sure about the answer. The USSR gets the VPs whether or not the event is triggered and UN Intervention technically does not cancel the event, it merely allows you to play the card without triggering the event.

I'm going with butik man on this.
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Max DuBoff
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I think the crux of the issue is whether the event is "played." I agree, I'm not 100% sure, but I would tend to say that a canceled event is not played.
 
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Michael Kiefte
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MD1616 wrote:
I think the crux of the issue is whether the event is "played." I agree, I'm not 100% sure, but I would tend to say that a canceled event is not played.


Flower Power doesn't care whether the event is played or not, just whether the card is played.
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Max DuBoff
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mkiefte wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
I think the crux of the issue is whether the event is "played." I agree, I'm not 100% sure, but I would tend to say that a canceled event is not played.


Flower Power doesn't care whether the event is played or not, just whether the card is played.


Hmmm, good point, but in game terms, I thin we also need to figure out if UN Intervention is the official event.
 
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Sam Carroll
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mkiefte wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
I think the crux of the issue is whether the event is "played." I agree, I'm not 100% sure, but I would tend to say that a canceled event is not played.


Flower Power doesn't care whether the event is played or not, just whether the card is played.


According to Jason's quote below, it cares if the card is played as long as the event is playable (which I find weird, but what are you gonna do.)

"Put another way, after this event is played, every time a war card is played by the US player, the USSR scores 2 VP. This does not apply to war cards whose affects have been cancelled by another event."
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Michael Kiefte
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spartax wrote:

According to Jason's quote below, it cares if the card is played as long as the event is playable (which I find weird, but what are you gonna do.)

"Put another way, after this event is played, every time a war card is played by the US player, the USSR scores 2 VP. This does not apply to war cards whose affects have been cancelled by another event."


So the next question is, does UN Intervention cancel the event? Or does it merely bypass it.

The reason I mention this is that "Cancelled" is always permanent in TS.
 
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Max DuBoff
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The card uses the word "canceled."
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Michael Kiefte
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MD1616 wrote:
The card uses the word "canceled."


That kind of settles it, doesn't it.
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