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Subject: Invader vulnerabilities - card or token? rss

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Charles-Louis de Maere
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Hello,

I was just trying to get my first solo play of 12 Realms going (in the Cherry Blossom realm) when Kitsune came up as an invader.

When I placed the token, I noticed the token and card don't list the same vulnerabilities.

Card: Swiftness or Craft
Token: Combat or Craft

Now, I didn't double-check all tokens, but does anyone know whether I should follow the weakness of the card or the token?

Thanks
 
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Hi we had mentioned the following:
Normally you follow the Tokens in the game.

As we added variants in the game, we made some cards different from the tokens and this is something we want to do in the following editions too. A variant where you choose to follow either the Token or the card. You just choose which one to follow:

If you notice you do not take gold coins from all the invaders around the realms, or not all realms have the same amount of tokens. This is how we wanted to make the final version in order to have many options and variants.

Our mistake on this point is that we did not mention it as a couple of things several people found it but we included in the FAQ. NOTE: We re-uploaded the FAQ.

If I can help more, pls let me know.
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Charles-Louis de Maere
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Okay, thanks. I'll have another look at the FAQ then :-)
 
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We were sure that had written everything in the rules..impossible..but at least to put as many as we can. There are few things we wrote in the FAQ and these things were mentioned by several people. My point is that, you as all the players can see more clearly the game than us. And this is something, it helps a lot the way we keep designing games.
 
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Stuart Holttum
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Can I ask how much blind play testing was done on the final product/rulebook, with testers who had no prior experience with the game? That's the stage where this sort of issue should get picked up.
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About 8-10 months. Few people had experience along with us where we knew the game. However we had event sent the PnP version with several mistakes and still few notes were made by the people who played it.

May I ask how many games have FAQ? Or even entire editions have been reprinted cause of many mistakes and not by small companies. I gather games too.

I see your point, trust me on that but there will be always questions.
 
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Stuart Holttum
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8 months, and nobody asked "why don't these tokens match the cards?"

I think you need some new test groups!
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As I said I get your point.
i try to explain that you can choose between these 2 things. As a couple of things were not written so this was not written too. However you have right, totally now we have more people, we try to become better and fix everything and I see where we must focus. Cards-Tokens: Yes they asked several of them, yes the answer was the same. We wanted it as variant in the game. As there are additional variants in the game. For example at the beginning there was a mess why the tokens are not equally the same for each realm. Right? We should mention that in the rules but was something we didn't add. I hope you get my point.
 
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Stuart Holttum
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The your point is that all along, you wanted variant card/tokens.

You do not include this in the rules for your blind playtesters.

Your blind playtesters reported back "there is a difference between cards and tokens"

You did....nothing?

I'm sorry, I know this is sounding negative, but I like this game. I'm pretty much a definite for the next 8 kingdoms. So I want the game to be right.

And so, I'm trying to understand - and, hopefully, to help you understand - where the errors arose.

I suggested it was the fault of the blind playtesters. You've said, quite emphatically, that many of them picked it up as an issue. Which means, sadly, that the error is with you (or whoever was in charge) not bothering to act on the playtester feedback?
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I explained you that there 2, 3 things we did not see it in the rulebook and therefore we did not add them, our mistakes yes, I know that. We checked it so many times and we did not see it at all. When the final version was ready and the product also, then it was mentioned again and we stood there wondering how we left out not only that specif note but a couple of more things. These notes are included in the FAQ now we posted on BGG and on our website and we have informed out network too. We will use more people from now beside the people we have now to see the game and detect any possible errors. I know how it sounds, trust me, and there is no excuse, I don't say we are perfect but for sure we missed few things and imagine that we were so happy for the result. As for the playtesters we always listen more than you can thing, I can ensure you for that and we do whatever we can not to repeat such a thing again. Yes I understand what you say and from all the people I have talked the last 2 months I have kept a lot of noted in order to be careful.

Note: In the next edition we make scenarios to play with. Also few people told us some ideas for the main game and we will start checking them very soon to see how it goes.
 
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