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Subject: Why do Runewars Fans Generally Dislike Eclipse? rss

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Troy Creamer
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I like them both but they are different. Usually the economic aspect of eclipse kills it for some.
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Wayne Shepherdson
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No idea about that. I have both games and like both of them. I feel the game is pretty different from each other than one being a watered down version.
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Calavera Despierta
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I don't really dislike Eclipse. I would just rather play Twilight Imperium or Runewars (or really, if I am going to play a science fiction themed game, High Frontier.)

I feel like Eclipse is a cube-pushing resource management game disguised as a 4X space civ. It's extremely well designed for what it does, but for my tastes, there isn't enough negotiation, politicks, deal-making, betrayal or backstabbery.

Runewars has some of that - not as much as TI3, but enough to make it more interesting than Eclipse. I don't spend all my time wanking over resource management in Runewars, though I do have to be aware of resources. I don't have to worry about purchasing upgrades, though with the legacy game expansion, there are upgrades I can consider purchasing. Because in Runewars the map is created at game setup and not over the course of play, I can make longer term strategic plans about control of certain areas of the map, rather than wait until players have explored and placed tiles to make my plans.
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Tom Stearns
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The difference for me is the level of conflict. My experience with Eclipse is everyone turtles (except vs aliens) until the end game. In Runewars the direct conflict begins very quickly and lasts until the end.
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Ron
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gohrns wrote:
The difference for me is the level of conflict. My experience with Eclipse is everyone turtles (except vs aliens) until the end game. In Runewars the direct conflict begins very quickly and lasts until the end.

Tom nailed it (although I would have said "builds up" instead of "turtles" meeple)
 
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Patrick G.
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Because we like good games?
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Andrey
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I don't hate eurogames and I don't like bloated 8-hour-monsters, so I'm not actually an ameritrash fanboy as such, but I don't think Eclipse is a good game.

The most serious crime of Eclipse, in my opinion, are its victory conditions.

In good engine-building games (think Race for the Galaxy and Civilization: the Board Game) you build a system which somehow converts game resources into victory. In Eclipse, on the other hand, the victory conditions are a mere checklist, which isn't tied to everything you do in any meaningful way. So instead of pursuing an actual strategy, in last turns you just abandon everything and rush to satisfy a list of abstract conditions, from meaninglessly leaving and settling planets to buying lots of useless technologies.
Meh.
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Frank Franco
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It's simple.
Eclipse sacrifices theme for mechanics. It has a checklist of what should be in a space combat game, but while the way it hangs together is 'balanced' and 'elegant', it comes at the cost of flavor and personality.

The TI races get the creative juices flowing. They have a style.
I couldn't tell you who the eclipse races are.

In the end when I play a space conquest game the feeling of epic victory (or defeat) is what matters most. Eclipse may make you feel like you played well (or not) and you outsmarted your opponents (or not) but it will never make you feel like you battled to control the cosmos.
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David F
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Runewars has a ton of cards and hidden information, Eclipse has none. I like cards and crazy powers, while Eclipse's more 'sterile' treatment has its adherents.
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Scott Lewis
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selwyth wrote:
Runewars has a ton of cards and hidden information, Eclipse has none.

Well, almost none anyway. The VP shield things are hidden from the other players until the end of the game, and in really tight games those can make the difference sometimes.

But I agree that the lack of more hidden information does make Eclipse more sterile.
 
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Mr. Monkey
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I personally enjoy both games, although for very different reasons. Runewars is full of theme and conflict...epic from the coffin box it comes in, to the amount of units you can have crashing into your opponents. Eclipse on the other had is full of tension and economics...where in each action you are trying to optimize how and when to get what you want. The end effect for me is that these games feel very different, after that it's just a matter of taste. I like watching Star Wars but sometimes I watch Star Trek instead.
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Troy Creamer
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The whole turtling thing about Eclipse i don't get i have won many times by being agressive early like the second round. Most experience players don't turtle in the game unless you are playing the planta but I have seen a person win by being very aggressive even with the planta. Eclipse isn't for everyone just like Runewars isn't for everyone but you can like both easily. They both are good and both are staying in my collection.
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Markus Kernic
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I'm shocked. Came here to learn about Runewars and instead found an Eclipse-bashing thread. I like Eclipse a lot.
 
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Mark Bauer
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Kalecgos wrote:
I'm shocked. Came here to learn about Runewars and instead found an Eclipse-bashing thread. I like Eclipse a lot.


whait... what??
You opened up a thread with the title "Why do Runewars Fans Generally Dislike Eclipse?" and you hoped to learn about Runewars? How about like every other thread in this forum?
I don't know about this "general dislike" of Eclipse, I never played the latter. But in a thread with this title, I assume a lot of people describe why they dislike Eclipse! And you are surprised?
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Jeffrey Milloy
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Anduin wrote:
You opened up a thread with the title "Why do Runewars Fans Generally Dislike Eclipse?" and you hoped to learn about Runewars?


No.

Markus came to the Runewars forums in general and is shocked to find this thread at all. At least, that's what his post says.
 
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Patrick G.
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jmilloy wrote:
Anduin wrote:
You opened up a thread with the title "Why do Runewars Fans Generally Dislike Eclipse?" and you hoped to learn about Runewars?


No.

Markus came to the Runewars forums in general and is shocked to find this thread at all. At least, that's what his post says.

Here is ambiguous. I took it to mean this thread as well.
 
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Ryan Newell
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Runewars fans don't generally dislike Eclipse. At least not at this website.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/similar/thing/59294

Ignoring the expansions, video games, and collector's editions in that list, there are only 8 games rated higher than Eclipse by users who rated Runewars a 9 or 10.


EDIT: Ooh, and only four games rated higher than Eclipse by people who rated Runewars a 10.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/collection/similar/thing/59294?...
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Markus Kernic
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Anduin wrote:
You opened up a thread with the title "Why do Runewars Fans Generally Dislike Eclipse?" and you hoped to learn about Runewars?

Well actually I was making my way to the forums by the way of this games page: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/59294/runewars#forums and it shows a list of recent/hot (?) topics and this thread was on the top of that list.
I like Eclipse so naturally I was curious...
 
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Mark Bauer
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I'm just saying that you can't be surprised to see Eclipse bashed in a thread with that title. ;-)
Anyways, as it is common with those topics, they tend to be over dramatic and not representing the majority as Ryan pointed out.
btw: Thanks Ryan! I didn't even know about this feature of BGG! This can come in handy ^^
 
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Kelly Fischer
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Eclipse, Runewars & A Game of Thrones are my only 10s. Love these games.
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m Vlad
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I like RuneWars because it´s Epic, when I play fantasy games I´m drawn in the story that it´s told by the game itself as I play, I think of RuneWars as a great book.

I like Eclipse because it´s Epic, when I play sci fi games I´m drawn into the tech and calculations, I think of eclipse as a great mathematic exercise.

As you can already tell I like both games.They both feel different, 4x is the only thing that they have in common.I love the empire building genre, and I would not like playing the same game with a different theme. Sometimes I´m in the mood for a space-themed game such as Eclipse with no text,lots of dice rolling,calculations and cold-war aspects(if players are paying attention to each other´s race sheet).Sometimes I NEED to play that fantasy themed game with much more depth.

I like Civilization because it´s Epic,when I play civ-like games I´m drawn into the history aspects of the game, I think of Sid Meier´s Civ(the board game) as a great History lesson.

If all three games would have the same mechanic you´d be reading the same book in different languages.

Back to Eclipse and Runewars and why people prefer Runewars.

1) It LOOKS better.
2) It PLAYS better.
3) It IS better

Why do some people prefer Eclipse

1)It IS lighter
2)It FEELS euro
3)It ISN´t

It IS an elegant design. I´ve ¨forced¨ people into boardgaming by teaching them eclipse as their first game.They prefered Civ in the end (even though they did not speak english at all).They´ve also said they would never say no to Eclipse either.

Maths come a lot easier to people than literature,Symbols are easier to understand than sentences.Anybody can calculate but not everyone can immerse themselves deep into a well crafted universe.


Both games are great.



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Patrick G.
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korxonthos wrote:
mvl4d wrote:

Maths come a lot easier to people than literature,Symbols are easier to understand than sentences.Anybody can calculate but not everyone can immerse themselves deep into a well crafted universe.


I'm not sure if that's true. There are plenty of difficult mathematics problems that separate those who know enough math to use a formula in a fairly obvious scenario from those who understand mathematics deeply.

Consider this question:

Let a, b, c, and d be any integer.

Prove that (b-a)(c-a)(d-a)(c-b)(c-d)(b-d) is divisible by 12.

I don't think that math can be dismissed as being easy to come...

technically that is not basic mathmetics. that is a much higher form that what is needed to play eclipse.
 
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Marcel Stoklas
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korxonthos wrote:
I've been noticing that a good number of Runewars fans have a negative or disinterested opinion of Eclipse. Is this phenomenon somewhat comparable to a person who has tasted gourmet food and consequently rejects fast food? Or is it because Eclipse feels like an insulting watered-down version of an epic 4x game?

By the way, I'm in the anti-Eclipse boat as well!


How did you find out that? Me and my gaming group play both games and we like them equally. If we want to play something epic,we usually take out Runewars, if something less epic, with less playing time, Eclipse is great option.
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I don't dislike Eclipse, but it isn't visually interesting and isn't really all that thematic, which are the main reasons why Runewars is so cool (plus it's a pretty great game too).
 
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Sam Butler
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I have not played Eclipse, would be interested in trying it sometime to see what all the hype is about...but I remember when I was looking into getting some form of space game, I found Space Empires: 4X seemed much more appealing to me than Eclipse (which were the two I was debating between). That said, it seems they are both different games, and one of these days hopefully I will get around to playing Eclipse as well.
 
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