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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: The unbelievable power that is Seoni! rss

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Mike Beiter
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We have played Pathfinder a handful of times and so far, despite a few frustrating hiccups we have had a good time playing.

Our party of four heroes consists of Ezren, Merisiel, Seoni and Valeros. Or, Wizard, Thief, Sorceress and Warrior for those who do not have names memorized.

Our party works well together despite the lack of a divine spellcaster. However in each game it has been Seoni who has lead the charge and accomplished more by herself then the rest of the team combined.

On an average turn by cycling through her deck she explores on average 2 to 4 times. And the rest of us generally explore once, maybe more if we get a good draw. But Seoni is an exploration machine, and she does very well at overcoming almost every card she draws at her location.
Our concern is that we could not win without her. We do our best to close locations and put the best characters to the best tasks. But when you can only go through 1 or two explores a turn, Seoni can close multiple locations all by herself thanks to her deck cycling.

At the end of every adventure, the rest of the characters manage to acquire usually 1 or 2 cards for their deck, sometimes 3 if we are lucky, but Seoni always gains at least 5 cards.
So when the deck streamlining is done, she keeps pulling ahead more and more and the rest of us are scrambling to find cards worthy of upgrading to.

So my questions are…

1) Is she just plain better than Ezren? They both cast arcane spells, but Ezren explores once a turn most of the time and usually obliterates his opponent if he encounters one and that’s it. But Seoni with her rapid exploring and power to almost always “blow up” an enemy make her ridiculously versatile and far more effective than Ezren.

2) If she is in fact better than Ezren, should the poor wizard retire and have the party be joined by one of the divine spellcasters to round it out? Regardless of her amazing power, having two people always fighting for the same spells is a bit annoying.

3) Are we placing Seoni on a pedestal unnecessarily? Maybe she has just been lucky? Have other parties with her in them had similar experiences to ours? Do the rest of the players just sit back and watch the Seoni show and do their best to try and keep up?

Any wisdom form more experienced adventurers is much appreciated!
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Steve Bauer
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Why is Seoni such a good explorer? I guess if you use all your blessings and allies for extra explorers she could do a good deal of exploring but at the cost of most of her life. Without a healer how are you keeping her alive?

I don't see why it matters who gets the treasure, it is all shared at the end of the adventure anyway.
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Scott Smart

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I am pretty sure you're doing something wrong. She only recycles her Arcane spells after casting them not everything. So if she's discarding her Blessings and Allies 1-3 times per turn, she's dead pretty quickly as she only starts out with 3 spells and a handsize of 6. Plus, unlike Ezren, she has no way of getting free explores without using one of those two types of cards.

However, I will say that that foursome is a pretty slow exploring group as Val only has a handsize of 4 (until you gain that 1st power feat which has to go to making that a 5) with only 3 blessings and 2 allies, Merisiel has 6 items which don't let you explore, 2 allies and 4 blessings, and Ezren famously has no blessings and only a couple of allies so he needs to be getting all of the spells and magical items he can find to get extra explores. So, Seoni definitely will be an exploration machine compared to them especially if you give her Augury as one of her spells which will cycle to get rid of the non-henchmen cards.
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Mike Beiter
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All her blessings and allies make her a good explorer.
Depending on what blessing is showing she can play several blessings in a row to explore and recharge them instead of discarding them. And with her large hand she usually has 1 or 2 every turn.

True the allies are usually discarded and she does do some damage to herself by game end, but as she thins out her deck it allows her blessings to cycle through and before you know it she has them all again.
Like I said in my example, she takes double to triple the amount of turns the rest of us take.

As for treasure, we do pool what is left after we keep what we want for our personal decks. But my point was more that she does so well that she has so much more treasures that she adds to the pool.
Every game she accomplishes so much more than the rest of us. 9 of the cards in her deck let her explore and give her way more chances to find and acquire cards.
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Sean Geraghty
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I suspect OP is recharging instead of discarding Blessing of the Gods by INCORRECTLY copying that text from the top blessing of the blessing deck.
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Darth Ed
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I play Seoni in a 4-character game with a friend of mine. (I also play Merisiel. My friend plays Amiri and Kyra.) At first, during the Perils adventure especially, Amiri was the one who would take down the villain with relative ease. However, lately (we've just started the Skinsaw Murders, but I first noticed about halfway through Burnt Offerings), Seoni has blossomed with a couple of Charisma skill feats and a couple of Blessings of Pharasma in her deck to become our MVP. With her AD1 offensive spells, an Acolyte or her pet Saber-Tooth Tiger, and a Blessing of Pharasma, she's consistent rolling 3d12 + 4 + 2d6 + (1d4 or 1d6). Even if you roll all ones, she's doing at least 10 combat damage and usually much, much more. None of our other characters can match it right now.

With Augury and a decent number of blessings in her deck, you're right—she's an exploring machine. Couple her with the Staff of Minor Healing or a healer like Kyra or Lem in order to recharge the blessings in her discard pile, and she's virtually unstoppable.

The key though is that she has a large number of blessings in her deck and relatively few items and other stuff clogging up her deck.
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Mike Beiter
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kysmart wrote:
I am pretty sure you're doing something wrong. She only recycles her Arcane spells after casting them not everything. So if she's discarding her Blessings and Allies 1-3 times per turn, she's dead pretty quickly as she only starts out with 3 spells and a handsize of 6. Plus, unlike Ezren, she has no way of getting free explores without using one of those two types of cards.

However, I will say that that foursome is a pretty slow exploring group as Val only has a handsize of 4 (until you gain that 1st power feat which has to go to making that a 5) with only 3 blessings and 2 allies, Merisiel has 6 items which don't let you explore, 2 allies and 4 blessings, and Ezren famously has no blessings and only a couple of allies so he needs to be getting all of the spells and magical items he can find to get extra explores. So, Seoni definitely will be an exploration machine compared to them especially if you give her Augury as one of her spells which will cycle to get rid of the non-henchmen cards.


I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

When a blessing of the gods is showing, then her momentum is slowed down because she will no longer be able to recharge blessings. So on those turns she saves her blessings and tosses out an ally or 2.

 
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Darth Ed
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

No, that's wrong. See here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9r52
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Sky Zero
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
kysmart wrote:
I am pretty sure you're doing something wrong. She only recycles her Arcane spells after casting them not everything. So if she's discarding her Blessings and Allies 1-3 times per turn, she's dead pretty quickly as she only starts out with 3 spells and a handsize of 6. Plus, unlike Ezren, she has no way of getting free explores without using one of those two types of cards.

However, I will say that that foursome is a pretty slow exploring group as Val only has a handsize of 4 (until you gain that 1st power feat which has to go to making that a 5) with only 3 blessings and 2 allies, Merisiel has 6 items which don't let you explore, 2 allies and 4 blessings, and Ezren famously has no blessings and only a couple of allies so he needs to be getting all of the spells and magical items he can find to get extra explores. So, Seoni definitely will be an exploration machine compared to them especially if you give her Augury as one of her spells which will cycle to get rid of the non-henchmen cards.


I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

When a blessing of the gods is showing, then her momentum is slowed down because she will no longer be able to recharge blessings. So on those turns she saves her blessings and tosses out an ally or 2.



Unfortunately, you are wrong. Blessing of the Gods ALWAYS get discarded after use. You're copying a card's in game effect, not its recharge ability. Remember that recharge occurs after the fact so once you copy the in game effect, your blessing goes "poof"!
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Mike Beiter
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DarthEd wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

No, that's wrong. See here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9r52


That is very interesting because the card clearly does not say that.
It says treat the card as if it were identical.
So was this just an oversight on the wording of the card? Anyone who plays this game without checking the on line forums may unknowingly be making the same play error.

This certainly will cut in greatly to her overall effectiveness. It appears our future adventures are about to get a bit more difficult.

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention.
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Steve Bauer
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DarthEd wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

No, that's wrong. See here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9r52


Yes that explains it, with specialized blessings I find it very rare that I can recharge. Having the right blessing in my hand at the right time seems pretty rare, I some times try to hold a round or two but the right blessing never comes up. Recharging blessing of the Gods way overpowers blessing which under-powers blessing-less Ezren.

I think Seoni is very good but also squishy and is usually nearly dead by the end of an adventure because her power runs off discard and she has no armor.

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Alex Villanova
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From the FAQ:

"Does Blessing of the Gods copy the recharge information from the top card of the blessings discard pile?
No—just the powers.

Resolution: On the blessing Blessing of the Gods, change the last power to:

'You may instead treat this card as if it had the same powers as the top card of the blessings discard pile.'"

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Steve Bauer
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
DarthEd wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

No, that's wrong. See here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9r52


That is very interesting because the card clearly does not say that.
It says treat the card as if it were identical.
So was this just an oversight on the wording of the card? Anyone who plays this game without checking the on line forums may unknowingly be making the same play error.

This certainly will cut in greatly to her overall effectiveness. It appears our future adventures are about to get a bit more difficult.

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention.


The power is identical, the recharge is not.
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Mike Beiter
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sbauer9 wrote:
DarthEd wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
I do not believe we are doing anything wrong.
To our understanding a blessing of the gods is treated like it is identical to the top of the blessing discard pile, so if the discard pile is anything but a blessing of the gods any blessing of the gods you discard is recharged instead because it is treated as a copy of that card.

No, that's wrong. See here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk#v5748eaic9r52


Yes that explains it, with specialized blessings I find it very rare that I can recharge. Having the right blessing in my hand at the right time seems pretty rare, I some times try to hold a round or two but the right blessing never comes up. Recharging blessing of the Gods way overpowers blessing which under-powers blessing-less Ezren.

I think Seoni is very good but also squishy and is usually nearly dead by the end of an adventure because her power runs off discard and she has no armor.



Yeah, all very true. This is going to break the heart of the Seoni player. Perhaps he will trade up for a divine spellcaster now...
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James Cameron
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That card wording is... unfortunate.

But look on the bright side: you can start a brand new adventure with new characters -- more value for your money!
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Paul DeStefano
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General rule of thumb:

If there's a thread declaring a certain character unstoppable and the game too easy, they are misplaying Blessing Of The Gods.
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Brent Lloyd
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I tend to agree with the OP in that Seoni is a powerhouse character - even when playing the Blessings of the Gods correctly.

In our games she does close a lot of locations and deals out a lot of damage, the flip side is she doesn't seem to acquire boons nearly as often as the other heroes we are using.

Seoni being able to blast a Fire spell at whim is really a great ability.

Peace
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John Rebstock
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A lot has already been explained by noting the Blessing of the Gods issue, but while my friend and I have never played Seoni, our party is Val, Merry, Ezren, and Kyra, and let me say that the other three are quite capable of pulling their weight. At first, we needed Kyra to keep everyone alive, but as we started getting our decks in order, the others began to stand on their own two feet more often, to the point where we rarely use Kyra's healing except in the event of an emergency. I suspect you'll find that once you stop relying on Seoni, you'll find the individual uses of the other three characters standing out more.

For example, Ezren should have Augury if at all possible, and possibly one other location deck manipulating spell. He has so many spell slots that it's no harm to give him extra, and it'll help him kickstart his own ability to dig through the deck quickly. He also recharges nearly everything, once his power and skill feats kick in, so he should be able to augur three or four times a game, if needed, which is a powerful way to determine where the villains and henchmen are.

Val is pretty straightforward, and I find he's often hoping for a cure not to stave off death, but to get back blessings so he can keep kicking... I should say exploring. Too much Munchkin, so I call it "kicking the door down" instead of exploring. Anyway, Val needs to cycle weapons and find ways to recover allies and blessings. He's incredibly effective when he can dig through a deck; it's just hard to get him to do so.

Merry's so solid. There's something awesome about just going "no, I don't want to deal with that" whenever something ugly crops up, and she generally can restore herself without too much trouble, since she has the slots free for the Staff of Minor Healing. Again, she just needs methods of getting blessings and allies back; once she has that, she'll start tearing through decks as well.

Give your current team a try with the new wording for BoG, and see if the others stand out. If you start to have trouble, then you may want to consider sacrificing a character for someone to heal you, but by and large, you have the tools available to do well; it's just a matter of taking advantage of it.
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Fromper Fromper
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There are definitely characters who have an easier time getting extra explores than other. It comes down to number of blessings and allies in their deck, and their hand size. The ability to pick up blessings and allies easily along the way also helps.

Seoni is very good at exploring, because of her quantity of allies and blessings, and good diplomacy to pick up more allies.

Ezren is the worst because of his lack of blessings. Valeros has the least blessings besides Ezren, so he's next worst. They're both still playable characters, but they won't do quite as well in a large group, due to not getting as many explores.

For your group, I'd recommend trading out Ezren for a divine caster.
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Gary M
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Fromper wrote:
There are definitely characters who have an easier time getting extra explores than other. It comes down to number of blessings and allies in their deck, and their hand size. The ability to pick up blessings and allies easily along the way also helps.

Seoni is very good at exploring, because of her quantity of allies and blessings, and good diplomacy to pick up more allies.

Ezren is the worst because of his lack of blessings. Valeros has the least blessings besides Ezren, so he's next worst. They're both still playable characters, but they won't do quite as well in a large group, due to not getting as many explores.

For your group, I'd recommend trading out Ezren for a divine caster.


Ezren gets free explores whenever he acquires a spell. And doesn't augury help as well? I don't recall exactly what it does but I remember it being somewhat helpful for exploring. No blessings true...but not without options.
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Joshua Birk
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Garyaxe wrote:

Ezren gets free explores whenever he acquires a spell. And doesn't augury help as well? I don't recall exactly what it does but I remember it being somewhat helpful for exploring. No blessings true...but not without options.


Ezren gets a free explore whenever he acquires a card with the magic trait. That encompasses a lot more than just spells.

And, yes, giving him a combination of Hastes, Auguries, and Detect spells can give him a ton of exploration options. I am through four scenarios of AP2, and at this point my Ezren makes as many explores, if not more, than most of his fellow party members.
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Timothy AMUNDSEN
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Since this is a Seoni thread maybe you guys can help me. Her second power states "For your combat check, you may discard a card to roll your Arcane die +1d6 with the attack, fire and magic traits. This counts as playing a spell". Does this mean discard ANY card to get these traits for the attack or discard a card with these traits to use the Arcane die role as an attack?

Thanks.
 
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Damien M
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Any card.

Let's break it down:

For your combat check, you may discard a card
to
roll your Arcane die +1d6 with the attack, fire, and magic traits.

Do this to do that.

It would have said this if it meant your interpretation:

For your combat check, you may discard a card with the attack, fire, [or] magic traits
to
roll your Arcane die +1d6.
 
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Darth Ed
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punchamole wrote:
Since this is a Seoni thread maybe you guys can help me. Her second power states "For your combat check, you may discard a card to roll your Arcane die +1d6 with the attack, fire and magic traits. This counts as playing a spell". Does this mean discard ANY card to get these traits for the attack or discard a card with these traits to use the Arcane die role as an attack?

You're paying the cost of discarding a card (any card) in order to enable Seoni to cast her fireball spell. The fireball attack spell that she casts has those traits. The card you discard can be any card. Whatever card you choose to discard, there's no possibility of recharging of it. The card must be discarded.
 
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Benjamin Schoenheiter
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I know it probably doesn't belong here -- but I didn't play her correctly possibly which is why I didnt find her too so strong. When I use her Power to discard a card to gain Arcane +1d6, can I use a Blessing to add another 1d12 Arcance die t the check? Or is that (I have played it like that) this is a special check, that straight up tells me what to roll.
 
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