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Fortune and Glory: The Cliffhanger Game» Forums » General

Subject: cooperative mode too easy? rss

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Guillaume Zork
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Am I the only one to find the cooperative mode too easy?

Obviously the easiest fix is to add extra fortune to reach what is needed for victory / reduce the villain track.

Also, I was thinking about having some effect of being KO'd. It could, for example, reduce the fortune of the team by 2, or alternatively increases the villain track by 1 (but it would imply faster game).

Any other suggestions you may have?
 
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Grant Holzhauer
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As this is a heavily luck-based game, I don't know that I agree. It can be easy, but it isn't always. I would certainly say that the new expansion present a much tougher vile organization.
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Tristan Hall
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We had to forbid robbing artifacts back from the villains - that made it way too easy. You could just wait for them to do all the heavy lifting and then yoink their loot, which I'm pretty sure is counter to the theme if you're supposed to be the good guys.
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Guillaume Zork
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@dojogrant: yes indeed, not always, but the odds are largely in favor of the investigators.

@ninjadorg: Banning the stealth seems cool, but it would be nice to be able to remove some the artifacts from the villain (especially from the Crimson Hand).

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Grant Holzhauer
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I will admit that we win more than we lose. But I guess we like that. We have plenty of co-ops that kick our butt time and time again.
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Guillaume Zork
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dojogrant wrote:
I will admit that we win more than we lose. But I guess we like that. We have plenty of co-ops that kick our butt time and time again.


I agree. I like winning too

Though
"À vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire"
"We triumph without glory when we conquer without danger"

So I was thinking of just tunning a bit up the difficulty.

warm regards
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Matthew McFarland
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You might be getting a rule or two wrong. For example, there already is a penalty for being KO'd. Granted, if you have a ton of cards and Glory it might not hurt you too bad, but I wasn't sure if you were playing with that. Also make sure you're scaling the victory conditions according to the number of Heroes.

Aside from that, you're right in that changing the points needed to win is the easiest way to increase difficulty. Look into the expansions, or if that's a bit too much just grab the Danger Pack Supplement.
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Steven Robinson
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Do you use the Adventure/Artifact challenges? (Of Time, Of Illusion, ect) That should help scale the game. I never use it as I always forget about it till after the Artifacts have been taken shake Are you randomly drawing starting characters instead of choosing the best? Are you making sure your using all the Villains special abilities for combat, reduced damage ect? My games sometimes come close but I would never say it's too easy. I find the Mobsters the easiest of the 2 Vile Organizations. Try the optional rules in the back of the book for scaling. One rule I house is I don't take a win immediately once the Fortune level is hit. I finish a complete turn till the end phase. If you have the amount needed to win but the Vile Organization's threat level is reached. I add 5 more to the threat level and Fortune requirements and continue. I was also thinking of not being able to choosing to reduce -1D3 of threat if the Vile Organization has no Fortune available to take.
 
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Frank Franco
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I find it quite difficult myself.
I'd say I lose more than I win, especially if I have a bad start.
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Grant Holzhauer
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We lost TERRIBLY in our first game with Rise of the Crimson Hand. I think we had maybe a couple of fortune before the villains got 15!
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Mattias Elfström
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It would be interesting to hear what scores you usually get in your games. If we collect some results we may be able to see if the victory conditions need to be adjusted...
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Oleg volobujev
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I buy this game since i really like the idea of globe adventures and cool mechanic of danger cards but………. this game is to much luck involve so i don't really like it in the end of the day. +box is to big to move it around when i travel. I see the crimson hand expansion but i decide to wait for very promising Eldtrich Horror from FFG first.
I also have a touch of evil and i love it but o don't like the expansions with additional boards (take to much space to play and don't really necessary) so i decide to skip for any new FFP game for now…..
 
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Guillaume Zork
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I don't think I have forgotten any rules you mentionned above.

We played yesterday and we lost badly against the nazi (cool ). We played with the following rules:

* When an investigator is KO'd, he looses 1D6 of glory, items and fortune. Though, the loss in fortune is at most 2. The rationale is to have a penalty for being KO'd even when you don't have enough glory/items. So investigators think about their choices.

* To win, investigators need to be all together in one of the starting city space. --Typically this add one extra turn for victory with the possibility of having a nasty encounter in a city--

* Any villain that comes into play gather artifacts and fortune for the villains organisation. Before, we played that each faction plays for its own interest. I think this last rule really made the game a bit harder (and more exciting). In our game, 3 extra non-nazi villains appeared during the game and collected fortune. Thematically, it somehow makes sense, there are temporary allies.


As for statistics, great idea. Here are ours.

victories loss total
----------------------------
Mob: 3 0 3
Nazis: 4 1 5
Crimson: 1 1 0

Please add your own counts, so we can have more reliable statictics.


cheers
 
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Quint Wheeler
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The first few times I played co-op I had a rule wrong that made it much too easy. I moved the villain track back every time I raided the villain, even if I took an artifact. But really you only get to move it back if you take the fortune. Probably not your problem, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
 
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Mattias Elfström
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I will try to make some statistics if you supply me with your play counts. I think it will be useful to also know how many players and teams were in each game.
 
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Guillaume Zork
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Mattias wrote:
I will try to make some statistics if you supply me with your play counts. I think it will be useful to also know how many players and teams were in each game.


I have only played 1 team vs villain in coop mode so far. (also play in competitive mode)

For the mob: victory: 3 games with 2 players.
For nazis: victory: 2 games with 2, 2 with 3. defeat: 1 with 3 players.
For crimson: loss: 1 game with 2 players.

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Steven Robinson
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6 players-cooperative vs Mobsters w/ Deadly Tests Supplement. Player Victory 50 Fortune to 14 Threat.
Rise of the Crimson Hand replaces the Adventure/Artifact cards with larger text, So now I have no excuse to say I can't read it
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Guillaume Zork
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We had 2 games since my last report. I now have included both danger packs (danger pack 1 and Sands of Cairo).

The first game was against Mobsters with 2 teams of 2 players. Mobsters won easily. Both teams lost.

The second game was against the Crimson Hand, 1 team of 3 players. We also lose, though not as bad as in the previous game.

All in all, since I have added the dangers from the expansions, I have lost the last 4 games :-)
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Daniel U. Thibault
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TigerTailz wrote:
One rule I house is I don't take a win immediately once the Fortune level is hit. I finish a complete turn till the end phase.


That's not a house rule, it's the normal rule: players can win only in the End Sequence. I've had several games where the players lost because the Villains snatched victory from them in the last turn. My games are almost always very close.
 
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Oleg volobujev
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I bought Crimson hand Expansion and it change everything for me. New Viliant a very deadly and cool! Game much more difficult now. And additional cards for all decks and + new Deadly danger is amazing. Major city epic event also Amazing! Game is so wide now! I really like it and thinking to buy all other expansions.
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Guillaume Zork
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Two other games that we played. For the statistics, if it is of any interest :-)

2 vs 2 vs Nazi: One of the team won.
2 vs Mob : Victory (We set the goal to 40 for players and 30 for mobsters).
 
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Daniel Potter
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I have found it fairly easy as well. Another option is to play versus 2 Vile organizations simultaneously. Even if you track each organization separately on the Villain track, there's a Villain at pretty much every Artifact/Adventure.
 
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