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Dawn of the Zeds (Second edition)» Forums » General

Subject: One thematic bummer... rss

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Neil Sorenson
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A small complaint that I have about the game is that the same event deck is used (and nearly exhausted) for each game. The upshot of this is that the suburbs bridge WILL collapse, the nuke station WILL leak radiation, the raiders WILL show up, etc. etc.

I understand that this might have been a deliberate design choice to offset some of randomness that already affects the game-play (that way nobody gets an event deck that happens to be stacked with a particularly harsh batch of negative events or vice versa) but I am a tad bummed that I'll see the same events play out each time (albeit in a different order).

I do realize that some events require a random roll or require unit XYZ to be at location ABC and therefore not every event will happen in an identical manner from game to game but I *do* know that that damned bridge is coming down sooner or later.
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Ladson
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This is a quibble of mine as well. That eventually, you will master the deck and have no more surprises. However, I've heard tell of an expansion that will add more events and hopefully allow for not always knowing if certain events are in the deck or not.

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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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kakupacal wrote:
A small complaint that I have about the game is that the same event deck is used (and nearly exhausted) for each game. The upshot of this is that the suburbs bridge WILL collapse, the nuke station WILL leak radiation, the raiders WILL show up, etc. etc.

I understand that this might have been a deliberate design choice to offset some of randomness that already affects the game-play (that way nobody gets an event deck that happens to be stacked with a particularly harsh batch of negative events or vice versa) but I am a tad bummed that I'll see the same events play out each time (albeit in a different order).

I do realize that some events require a random roll or require unit XYZ to be at location ABC and therefore not every event will happen in an identical manner from game to game but I *do* know that that damned bridge is coming down sooner or later.


All the States of Siege games I've seen are designed this way.
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Have no fear! Noelle and I were just discussing this very subject, not ten minutes ago.

The expansion (The Director's Cut) will have 24 new Event cards and 24 new Fate cards. I don't how you guys burn through all the Fate cards in a game as it is, but I dare you to burn through all of them now!

The new Event cards will probably be added to each Act as "wild" cards, the number depending on the scenario. So you won't know what's been added and we'll make sure you don't use all of the "wild" cards in a game, so you'll never be absolutely sure which ones are in and which are out.

We hope that will add even more angst and terror of the unknown for you!

Details will be forthcoming, but that's the rough plan.

Thanks!
Hermann
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Clinton Tucker
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I disagree, the mechanic of flipping through the cards is how you bookkeep the game. Let's face it,basically this is just a game of bookkeeping ! But the mechanics fit the theme and the actions PERFECTLY! I think this is a brilliantly designed game, and because of the mechanics I really feel like I'm trying to fend off approaching doom, of course you know what's going to happen the zombies will come and try to kill you, you will search for supplies, you will exhaust supplies, all zombie games are like this ! I believed this game to be so well designed I have purchase Zulus on the Ramparts, and Darkest Night, but I always end up killing Zeds instead ! Can't wait till the upgraded Nemo's War comes out !
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Alan Emrich
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Hold it, everyone! HOLD IT!!!

If you play the standard game, you're using a SUBSET of cards, and not ALL of them. Therefore, the bridge might NOT collapse, X number of Heroes might NOT arrive, there might not be a NIGHT HIGHWAY ASSAULT, etc.

What? Are all playing with EVERY Event card EVERY game?

Well, The Director's Cut will help with that, I suppose -- but it's really crazy to use every card every time, as you can "game" the system too easily (ask Wes Erni about that). It's better to play a shorter game using a subset of the Event cards to add some unpredictability.

Alan Emrich
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Clinton Tucker
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Actually I've never played anything other than the campaign mode. But a shorter game sounds even more fun because of the aforementioned unpredictability, thanks for making a great game even...greater?
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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Alan Emrich wrote:
It's better to play a shorter game using a subset of the Event cards to add some unpredictability.


Making the game shorter? That's crazy talk . This game gives me the same feeling as the best books I've read: When I can see the end approaching I wish for it to be longer, and when it's over I'm a bit sad that there isn't anymore.

Of course the nice thing is that the game has much better replayability than books have rereadability.

Seriously though I do see your point, and will consider playing a shorter version next time.
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Yes, as Alan mentions, there are shorter scenarios that don't use all the cards. My response was only to those who are playing the mega-scenario, from where the posted comments derive. In any case, the Director's Cut will be adding two new Heroes, two new types of mini-characters, another Civ-type unit, two more Super Zeds and more chaos that you can shake an infected stick at!

Thanks all!
Hermann
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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HORST324 wrote:
Yes, as Alan mentions, there are shorter scenarios that don't use all the cards. My response was only to those who are playing the mega-scenario, from where the posted comments derive. In any case, the Director's Cut will be adding two new Heroes, two new types of mini-characters, another Civ-type unit, two more Super Zeds and more chaos that you can shake an infected stick at!

Thanks all!
Hermann


Alan, will you please tie Hermann and Noelle to their chairs until the expansion is done?
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Ha! Well, he can tie up Noelle but I'm all the way on the other side of the continent in New York! We are working hard on it, even without the bondage.
Herm
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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HORST324 wrote:
Ha! Well, he can tie up Noelle but I'm all the way on the other side of the continent in New York! We are working hard on it, even without the bondage.
Herm


Damn! Foiled again .
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Dr. Urza, PhD of Dungeon Crawl
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I've always played the medium length game (which uses about 75% of the cards) precisely because there's more unpredictability. That bridge is probably going to collapse in Act 1, but it might collapse later or not at all.
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Neil Sorenson
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Urza47 wrote:
I've always played the medium length game (which uses about 75% of the cards) precisely because there's more unpredictability. That bridge is probably going to collapse in Act 1, but it might collapse later or not at all.


I'm trying this now!
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James

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The way I see it....

In a world run by zombies... left unattended, at some point the nuke station will leak... left without maintance, and burdened by hordes of zombies (dead weight :) ) bridges could collapse... and as I am holding on to one of the last strongpoints... other survivors will want it... I have no issue with any of that... I have played this game over 30 times, and am always surprised at the the way the events unfold...

The only thought I had to making this even more random (which I am not really needing)... would be if you broke each event card into 3 cards...

1 pile would be the Event
1 pile would be the actions
1 pile would be where they spawn

Then you can have tons of variety... instead of flipping 1 event card, it would 3... more work, but more options...


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Alan Emrich wrote:


What? Are all playing with EVERY Event card EVERY game?


My understanding was that the full campaign was what you were training up for. Once you got to that point, no need to go back. Hence the call for full campaign mode but with some randomization with "extra" cards that don't go in so you may have a pretty good idea of what's coming, but not entirely sure.

Make this game go to 11 like Nigel Tufnel's amplifiers-- when ya just that little extra push over the cliff.
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Neil Sorenson
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Since we're on the topic (sort of) - I haven't closely examined the cards that go in/out of the various versions of the full game based on desired length but aren't the short and medium games much easier simply based on the lessened amount of events coming at you? (or is there some fine tuning that I am overlooking?)

I ask because I've played out two medium games in the last two days that were both victories and I want the full, nut-crunching difficulty experience.
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David Kennedy
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mortenmdk wrote:
All the States of Siege games I've seen are designed this way.

The Lost Cause is an exception. There are annual decks of event cards for 1861-1865. However, there are also Broadsheet cards which represent generic or evocative events. A few of these are shuffled into each annual deck and a set number are used to build the event deck for the year. Notably, there will be a few cards left over each year which are pushed into the next year. Furthermore, many of the Broadsheet cards are recyclable. Thus, event cards can be pushed out many years into the future or even never appear. Certain events like the Emancipation Proclamation or Peninsula Plan Launched can be significantly delayed. It can lead to some interesting permutations. For the player, it can create this effect of waiting for a punch which never comes. Or, alternately, can give the player a window of opportunity which they might not ordinarily get. I love the tension. Check it out!
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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HitchKennedy wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:
All the States of Siege games I've seen are designed this way.

The Lost Cause is an exception. There are annual decks of event cards for 1861-1865. However, there are also Broadsheet cards which represent generic or evocative events. A few of these are shuffled into each annual deck and a set number are used to build the event deck for the year. Notably, there will be a few cards left over each year which are pushed into the next year. Furthermore, many of the Broadsheet cards are recyclable. Thus, event cards can be pushed out many years into the future or even never appear. Certain events like the Emancipation Proclamation or Peninsula Plan Launched can be significantly delayed. It can lead to some interesting permutations. For the player, it can create this effect of waiting for a punch which never comes. Or, alternately, can give the player a window of opportunity which they might not ordinarily get. I love the tension. Check it out!


Sounds good. I got the game recently, but haven't had the time to read the rules yet.
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Skip Thompson
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I found one advantage to being 66, and having a bad short-term memory. The cards are mostly "new" every game (except for dramatic ones like "Brains!").
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Lines J. Hutter
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After playing all lengths I decided that the Standard scenario is the one I like most. I'm fine with the length.
And I just played two Standard scenarios that felt totally different due to the mix of of the deck. One was a desaster and the other one a cakewalk for the first half.
So, yes, I agree, not using all cards all the time adds a lot to variety.
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Alan Emrich
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We're finding with THE DIRECTOR'S CUT expansion playtesting, that having a larder "pool" of cards to encounter, the limited number proffered in The Standard Scenario is really quite exciting with all the possibilities and "unknowns."

Alan Emrich
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Sky Zero
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Alan Emrich wrote:
We're finding with THE DIRECTOR'S CUT expansion playtesting, that having a larder "pool" of cards to encounter, the limited number proffered in The Standard Scenario is really quite exciting with all the possibilities and "unknowns."

Alan Emrich


Will this be a 2014 release? Looking forward to it and will be preordering!
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Alan Emrich
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We certainly hope to have it out in 2014! Much depends on the art queue...

Alan Emrich
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Sgt. Elias
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I've been losing to DotZ for a long time. I ONLY play Standard/Short games because I MUST have the unpredictability in my event/fate card decks. That, on top of all the other random set up procedures, keeps it fresh every time. Its just one of the things I simply love about this game.

It never plays out quite the same way twice...well it repeats in the sense that I get devoured more often than not.. but that's what I'm here for, the difficulty. I lose more than I win and that's one of the things that keeps me coming back for more.

My personal favorite game of all time. The expansion cards...are...oh man are they awesome! That's all I can say about it at this time.
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