Henning Hoffmann
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
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I get together every Monday night with three other friends to play board games (and occasionally video games). We've been doing this for over ten years. We have played many many games. Long ones, short ones, easy ones, complicated ones.

Last night I got out my brand new LOTR Dice game. I tried to make sense of the rules. My friend tried. My other friend tried. Then we put the game back in the box and played a different game.

This is the first time ever that we've got out a board game and put it away unplayed because we couldn't understand the rules.

This game totally sucks.
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Oh man, that is so sad. Well, others have been able to figure out the game with the original rules, so it's possible.

With that said: WizKids revisions to rules
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Henning Hoffmann
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Ok, thanks for that!

I downloaded the new rules and read them over, though I admit not in detail. I was trying to figure out the answer that so confused us last night. And there was no answer in these rules either. So I might as well ask:

1) The rules say "New Locations come into play during a Sauron turn if all enemies are destroyed." So what does that mean? You go to a new location at the beginning of a Sauron turn? End of turn? And if all enemies are not destroyed, all of us get another turn, and the same person who played Sauron last time plays him again?

2) So given the problems described in (1) above, how does one progress from one Location to the next?

3) Does everyone actually take full turns at every location (including Locations 1 and 2)? Because at Location 1, there's nothing to do, unless you want to buy a pony or Samwise dice. At Location 2, you can also buy artifacts. So is the whole round just people pulling dice out of the bags, rolling them, and buying artifacts? To someone who's played this game before the answer is obvious. But to us, who have never played, we're wondering what the heck is going on. Even Location 3 just puts out Unit cards. There's still nobody to attack. Rounds 1, 2 and 3 seem like "set up rounds" that should be part of the set up phase.

How does this work?
 
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Neil J.
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Castle Rock
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I highly recommend watching the tutorial video by Richard Ham (rahdo). He provides an excellent example of play. He goes a little fast at times (I had to rewind a few times), but if you are a visual learner like me the video was able to answer my questions.

Just curious, how is the production quality of your dice? When I bought the game about 6 months ago I was really disappointed with the painting job on a lot of my dice, and one die wasn't even square. I was wondering if WizKids fixed these production issues.
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Henning Hoffmann
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Gaius wrote:
I highly recommend watching the tutorial video by Richard Ham (rahdo). He provides an excellent example of play. He goes a little fast at times (I had to rewind a few times), but if you are a visual learner like me the video was able to answer my questions.


Will do, thanks.

Gaius wrote:
Just curious, how is the production quality of your dice? When I bought the game about 6 months ago I was really disappointed with the painting job on a lot of my dice, and one die wasn't even square. I was wondering if WizKids fixed these production issues.


I didn't notice anything wrong. But I didn't handle the dice much. Just enough to get some out of the box and then put them back in.
 
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Darth Ed
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+1 for Rahdo's runthrough. I bought the game because of it. He also subsequently contributed to the revised rules, I believe.

All of my dice are square, but some of them don't have as much paint as I would like. The dice are also smaller than I expected, honestly.
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Henning Hoffmann
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So I made the mistake of watching just part of the run-through, and thinking I saw enough to play the game.

WRONG!

My wife and I got totally confused by the corruption mechanic.

I've never been this frustrated by a game.
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Joseph Cochran
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henningh wrote:
1) The rules say "New Locations come into play during a Sauron turn if all enemies are destroyed." So what does that mean? You go to a new location at the beginning of a Sauron turn? End of turn? And if all enemies are not destroyed, all of us get another turn, and the same person who played Sauron last time plays him again?

2) So given the problems described in (1) above, how does one progress from one Location to the next?


There's a phase in the Sauron turn called "Phase 4: Advance". If you get to that phase and there are no enemies left, that's when you reveal the next location card and follow its instructions. If there are still enemies left you skip that phase.

So all location advancement is done as part of Sauron's turn. This doesn't affect the flow of the turns at all.

henningh wrote:
3) Does everyone actually take full turns at every location (including Locations 1 and 2)? Because at Location 1, there's nothing to do, unless you want to buy a pony or Samwise dice. At Location 2, you can also buy artifacts. So is the whole round just people pulling dice out of the bags, rolling them, and buying artifacts? To someone who's played this game before the answer is obvious. But to us, who have never played, we're wondering what the heck is going on. Even Location 3 just puts out Unit cards. There's still nobody to attack. Rounds 1, 2 and 3 seem like "set up rounds" that should be part of the set up phase.


Yes, everyone takes full turns at all locations, and yes The Shire and Rivendell are just set up turns, but they're done that way because it's part of the story. The Grey Havens at the end of the game is likewise just a bookkeeping turn after the main action is over. I actually kind of like that as it adds to the theme.
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henningh wrote:
I've never been this frustrated by a game.


Not to be a dick, but gee, I wonder why?
Maybe it's because you skimmed the rules and watched only part of a run-through, which isn't really a substitute for actually reading the rules anyway.

I know this isn't the most complex game ever and that the original rules had some issues, but do you seriously "learn" all your games by not reading the rules and watching part of a walk-through video?
How can you possibly know if you're playing correctly if you don't read the rules?
 
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Henning Hoffmann
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Wyphy wrote:
henningh wrote:
I've never been this frustrated by a game.


Not to be a dick, but gee, I wonder why?
Maybe it's because you skimmed the rules and watched only part of a run-through, which isn't really a substitute for actually reading the rules anyway.

I know this isn't the most complex game ever and that the original rules had some issues, but do you seriously "learn" all your games by not reading the rules and watching part of a walk-through video?
How can you possibly know if you're playing correctly if you don't read the rules?


Well gee, not to be a dick, but I DID read the rules and I didn't understand them. Well written rules actually explain things properly.

As to the video walkthrough, I shouldn't _have_ to watch it to play the game. As it turns out, maybe they should have included the video in the box and told users they HAVE to watch an hour of video in between reading the revised versions of the rules (also not included) fourteen times before playing the game.

Not to be a DICK about it, but I'm no amateur at this, and I LOVED Quarriors and had no problems with THOSE rules. And a bazillion other games. Just this one.

Maybe I offended your sensibilities because you love this game so much, but I don't care. I bought this game because I WANTED to play and enjoy it. I don't have a pile of cash lying around to spend on games so that I can whine about them in forums. I love dice building and I love LOTR, so this game got my money. I bought it to enjoy it. Not because I wanted to write a post complaining about it. That's just how it turned out.
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henningh wrote:
I downloaded the new rules and read them over, though I admit not in detail.

henningh wrote:
So I made the mistake of watching just part of the run-through, and thinking I saw enough to play the game.


This is what you said, thus what I based my comments on. That's apparently the way you chose to try and learn the game so I just pointed out the obvious flaw there.

Oh, and I've never played the game, just considered buying it.
Ultimately I've decided not to buy any Wizkids stuff based on issues I've heard about component and customer support quality.
 
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Wyphy wrote:
henningh wrote:
I downloaded the new rules and read them over, though I admit not in detail.

henningh wrote:
So I made the mistake of watching just part of the run-through, and thinking I saw enough to play the game.


This is what you said, thus what I based my comments on. That's apparently the way you chose to try and learn the game so I just pointed out the obvious flaw there.

Oh, and I've never played the game, just considered buying it.
Ultimately I've decided not to buy any Wizkids stuff based on issues I've heard about component and customer support quality.


In hennigh's defense, his original post said that he read the rules and could not play the game. It was his follow up post in reply to my post, where you mentioned only skimming the *revised* rules. He made no mention of attempting to play the game after that, nor that he had any trouble.

Wyphy, you seem to have not read the thread carefully.

I will repeat what I said earlier. It *was* possible to understand the game using the original rules, if you were careful. It did require that players read the rules printed on the actual cards though. However, those rules should be thrown out, with the existence of the revised rules.
 
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Floyd Resler
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Cincinnati
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I was able to understand how the play the game from the original rules but only after having the game set up in front of me and playing it as I read. If I hadn't done that I would have been totally confused!
 
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