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Subject: New Counters rss

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Jim Krohn
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This is part 2 of the thread on the second expansion. I have a counter sheet in the second expansion that is not currently filled - there are some available counters. I have some options for filling them, but I thought I would also open it up to BGG. Maybe you have a better idea.

Are there any counters - more of a certain type, a new type, etc. - that you would like to see added to the game?
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Niko
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More MS pipelines please! When trying to mine nebula I almost always run out before being able to connect all colonies and 3 nebulae. This is on a large 2 player map, anything larger than that almost requires use of the remaining colors pipelines.

Another mine counter or two would also be nice. I see why you don't want too many, but currently I often find it difficult to reinforce existing minefields.

Some duplicates of existing Deep Space counters would also be awesome. It's only a problem when all of them are used, but right now you often know what will be in the last few unexplored hexes. One or two extra lost in space, supernova, space wreck, nebula, barren planet, etc would add some uncertainty there.
Similarly a fourth warp point counter for one set would be nice. Adding all six is too many on most maps IMO and 3 not quite enough. The current solution of simply using any 4 and ignoring the numbers works quite well though.
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Greg Lott
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
More MS pipelines please! When trying to mine nebula I almost always run out before being able to connect all colonies and 3 nebulae. This is on a large 2 player map, anything larger than that almost requires use of the remaining colors pipelines.

Another mine counter or two would also be nice. I see why you don't want too many, but currently I often find it difficult to reinforce existing minefields.

Some duplicates of existing Deep Space counters would also be awesome. It's only a problem when all of them are used, but right now you often know what will be in the last few unexplored hexes. One or two extra lost in space, supernova, space wreck, nebula, barren planet, etc would add some uncertainty there.
Similarly a fourth warp point counter for one set would be nice. Adding all six is too many on most maps IMO and 3 not quite enough. The current solution of simply using any 4 and ignoring the numbers works quite well though.


So... who are you playing that lets you establish that kind of economy? lol
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Niko
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Various people, sometimes it happens on my side, sometimes on my opponent's.
Latest instance was on a large map by about econ phase 7 or 8 when my opponent ran out. I think the network could possibly have been done a bit more efficiently, but it looked like he was trying to also build a highway for reinforcements.
Just after that my fleets broke through and started destroying his *pipelines so no actual problem with the limitation. But now I'm in the situation where my highway comes at the expense of trade connections.

If you look at the numbers you'll need at least 10 pipelines just to connect every planet in your home system, most likely 1 or 2 more. Add to that the pipelines needed for the nebulae (which could overlap with the hexes needed to connect pipelines, but could also be more than 1 hex away themselves) and your at ~14. Deep space is 6 lines deep, so you want ~4 as a highway to bring reinforcements. Add a conquered NPA planet or two and all counters are used. This only gets worse on larger maps as there's more planets and longer supply lines.

If you think it's a problem of the meta game I'm playing in I'd be more than happy to message you when I have time for a Vassal game
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Guido Gloor
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Space Monsters! Dragons, wandering voids, a space kraken or a space centipede.
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Rafael Ramus
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haslo wrote:
Space Monsters! Dragons, wandering voids, a space kraken or a space centipede.


YEAH! All that and Space Pirats!

Instant buy to me!

arrrh
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Andreas Hunziker
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Character Counters!

So that we can tell the stories of utter defeat and heroic victories!





I know you won't, but then, it had to be mentioned
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Desire Hertsen
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fregats between sc and DD
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Marc Noguera
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-Different Deep space markers.
-Much more Alien Races.
-A deck of space random events.
-More Scenarios.
-More victory conditions.
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Second expansion??? gulp

I have yet to play the first expansion. Guess I better get busy.

BOb
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Ocean Druen
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Without knowing what is in Expansion II: I would suggest additional deep space counters, specifically some new terrain.

As for ships that I would like to see scientific stations, and/or scientific ships. They could replace minesweepers in some of the scenarios and have additional functions (place in certain terrain for additional research). Another ship I would like to see would be local defense ships, much like bases these can not leave the system but should be lightly armed. a final ship I would like to see are bombers, these would be fighters that are unable to engage smaller ships, but have a bonus against larger ships.
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Jim Krohn
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Good ideas - here is where I am at on some of them -

- More MS Pipelines - Yes, there will be more for two reasons. First, I like building the highway into my opponents territory. Second, I was going to add some Miners and they need pipelines to mine Nebulae.

- More Miners - On the really large maps (which I have been playing more of lately), all four of my Miners get tied up mining Nebulae and I have none to pick up Minerals/Space Wrecks.

- Space Monsters (kraken, centipede, etc.) - I would need ideas to distinguish them from Doomsday Machines and Space Amoeba. Those two things are already very different and game changing in their own way. If I were to add another space monster it would have to be distinct.

- Space Pirates - This also would need to find its own space so that it does not overlap with Doomsday Machines or non-player aliens.

- Characters - I *love* this idea but, unfortunately, I can't use the cool pictures as they are licensed by various franchises.

- Frigates - There really is no space between SC and DD to fit another ship class. Silly story - the wife of one of my early playtesters used to always ask about Frigates. She never played, but she lobbied to have Frigates in the game. She use to walk around telling us, "You need Frigates!" She thought the name sounded funny.

-Different Deep space markers - We have some of those coming.

-Much more Alien Races - are you talking about Empire Advantages?

-A deck of space random events - Actually, I'm calling them Resource Cards. They are not just random events that happen, they are cards that you can play for the event or discard for CP.

-More Scenarios - check.

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Ocean Druen
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Is it possible to have another color too for a fifth faction?
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Jim Krohn
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There will be a fifth faction...now I'm leaking...and they will play completely different from the other players. They offer a different set of challenges and decisions for both the one playing them and the one playing against them.
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Ed Bradley
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Now I'm leaking too....
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Desire Hertsen
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sciens vesels
liners
hospital ships
tugs
cargo haulers
floting docks
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Ocean Druen
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desire45 wrote:
sciens vesels
liners
hospital ships
tugs
cargo haulers
floting docks


Brewery!!
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Marc Noguera
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Jim Krohn wrote:


-Much more Alien Races - are you talking about Empire Advantages?



I mean the Aliens you found on barren planets. I'm thinking in different alien ships depending of the alien race. And also, special powers, buildings or constructions, parallel boards..all related with aliens.
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Joe Crowder
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How about just blank counters in all the colors, so we can add whatever ship type, or character, we want? Throw in some blank terrain counters as well, for anyone who wants to adjust the ratios a bit, or add some warp points.
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Jim Krohn
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Space Pirates that are bid for are a good idea....Hmmmm....

Some blank counters will be included.
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Guido Gloor
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Different mechanisms? Sounds great Here are some ideas:

I like the minerals one. Maybe make the Space Dragon hoard all the preciousss in space, always floating away from approaching ships, and stealing all the resources.

The Wandering Void could work like a black hole, but randomly move every so often, eathing ships and planets (at a lower chance maybe?) alike. Can only be destroyed by Science Vessels or something, or with a dedicated tech even.

The Space Kraken is intelligent and can be bribed, whoever bids the most during economic turns gets to move him up to 2-3 spaces, and there it works similar to a Doomsday Machine. Maybe there's even a tech that allows you to summon the Kraken (think Sandworms and Thumpers). (Edit, doh, that's completely redundant with the pirates, sorry!)

Just random ideas of course, no clue whether they'd actually work
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Rafael Ramus
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jmp120 wrote:
Jim Krohn wrote:
Space Monsters (kraken, centipede, etc.) - I would need ideas to distinguish them from Doomsday Machines and Space Amoeba. Those two things are already very different and game changing in their own way. If I were to add another space monster it would have to be distinct


Space Monsters, doesn't matter which, go after Minerals and Miners rather than Colonies (like Doomsday Machines). Imagine discovering a Space Monster which goes around eating all your minerals before you have a chance to mine them.

Jim Krohn wrote:
Space Pirates - This also would need to find its own space so that it does not overlap with Doomsday Machines or non-player aliens.


Once discovered, you can pay off Space Pirates to attack a particular opponent. Whoever pays the highest bounty designates a target for the non-player controlled Pirates.

Jim Krohn wrote:
Characters - I *love* this idea but, unfortunately, I can't use the cool pictures as they are licensed by various franchises.


I don't think you need to use known characters. I think adding in special crew members will make your fleets more distinct. You could even limit them on your capital ship. Some of the effects the crew could cause are:
* Change attack classes
* Add early retreats
* Change screening mid combat round
* Add ramming attacks that sacrifices a ship for damage based on hull size
* Add a dice reroll.
Give bonuses for a particular fleet makeup


I really like these ideas!
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Jim Krohn
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Crew wont make it into this expansion, unfortunately - I have lots of ideas and have gotten some input on it, but it is too big and doesn't fit.
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Santi Velasco
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Jim Krohn wrote:
- Characters - I *love* this idea but, unfortunately, I can't use the cool pictures as they are licensed by various franchises.


What about Jamis T. Dirk or Varth Daver? are they licensed too?
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Yves trundorn
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more Fleet markers with names & Fleet tracking box could be very interesting for large maps
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