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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dark Charm vs. Running Shot rss

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DJ DJ
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Today, the question came up what happens if Dark Charm is played on Wildlander that has a Running Shot and OL forces the Hero to attack another hero. Can OL move the hero before/after the attack?
 
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Igor Pushkar
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If I remember correctly, OL with Dark Charm can only move character up to his speed or make one attack. Only surge abilities of that hero equiped weapon can be used and OL cannot use skills of that hero or force that hero to suffer fatigue. As I remember OL even do not get free surge from skills like Weapon Mastery.
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DJ DJ
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The OL can make a move action or an attack action with the hero. In case of Running Shot, the OL player decides to make an attack action. The only things forbidden by the Dark Charm are: Forcing hero to get fatigue and using a potion. Using skills that do not cause hero to get fatigue is not forbidden by the Dark Charm card. I'm not sure about items like Mana Weave or Weapon Mastery but in case of Running Shot, the 2 movement points that hero gets are an automatic effect of the skill.
 
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Robin Reeve
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St-Légier
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The (unofficial) FFG Sez-wiki has :

Q: During "Dark Charm," the only restriction is not spending fatigue, so: Can the OL use Bow/Rune/Weapon Mastery and/or "Mana Weave"? Can the OL spend Valour? If attacking themselves, can the hero spend Valour? Can the OL use "Valorous Strike"?

A: The overlord cannot force a hero to exhaust or use Skill cards, and he cannot force the hero to exhaust "Mana Weave."
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DJ DJ
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Ok, but what about Running Shot, as this is an unusual skill in a way, that its wording seems like it is mandatory, not optional. So, you can't really choose, it is always in effect. Wording on Running Shot is:

Running Shot wrote:
Each time you perform an attack with a Bow, you receive 2 movement points before or after the attack.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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The overlord cannot force a hero to exhaust or use Skill cards.

Running Shot is a skill card.

The overlord cannot force a hero to use Running Shot.
 
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DJ DJ
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Dexter345 wrote:
The overlord cannot force a hero to exhaust or use Skill cards.

Running Shot is a skill card.

The overlord cannot force a hero to use Running Shot.


I don't think that in this case OL forces a hero to use a skill. The same would go for Inscribe Rune:
Inscribe Rune wrote:
Any weapon you equip gains the Rune trait while equipped.


I would assume these skills are adding a permanent effect to the hero and as such modify the hero attack action in case of Running Shot and equipped weapon in case of Inscribe Rune.

Is it possible for the hero to voluntarely get rid of the effect? What if I have an Inscribed Rune and do not want my weapon to have Rune Trait, because I want to wear item that forbids me using Rune Weapons?

So I think the main question would be: do this kind of skills require usage and are they optional? Or do they give a mandatory permanent effect and are never being actively "used"?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I would say that, given the past ruling that the overlord cannot force a hero to exhaust or use skill cards, Inscribe Rune would not be active during Dark Charm. That doesn't mean the Overlord can't attack with it; it just means it loses the Rune trait (which, as far as I can tell, would have no effect on what the Overlord could do with it).

However, I would also say that a Runemaster with Inscribe Rune would not be able to equip the Chainmail or the Platemail at the same time as any weapon. Once Inscribe Rune is owned, it is not voluntary. However, I still don't think the Overlord gets the benefits for it during Dark Charm.

I may have to dig it up, but I feel like the exact question in the OP has been asked previously (Dark Charm vs. Running Shot), and the answer we got back from FFG was that the Overlord cannot take advantage of Running Shot.
 
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Bert McCloud
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Personally I would say that this is not covered by the rule of OL not being able to force the hero to use a skill card. I don't know officially but in my games I would argue that the gaining of movement points happens (since it is passive, it doesn't say "may" it just says "you recieve 2 movement points") but that doesn't mean that the OL can make you move. The hero would just gain the movement points but since it's not his turn he wouldn't be able to use them.

This is essentially the same as saying "nothing happens" but it makes more sense to me this way.
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DJ DJ
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Dexter345 wrote:
I would say that, given the past ruling that the overlord cannot force a hero to exhaust or use skill cards, Inscribe Rune would not be active during Dark Charm. That doesn't mean the Overlord can't attack with it; it just means it loses the Rune trait (which, as far as I can tell, would have no effect on what the Overlord could do with it).


This interpretation is very dangerous as it makes it possible for the Overlord to instantly kill a Berskerker with Brute skill if he has less than 4 hp left
 
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DJ DJ
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Just got an answer from Justin Kemppainen that Running Shot works, but it is the hero who spends the movement points gained by the attack. I also got confirmation that all other passive skills work, including Runic Knowledge. So the overlord can spend a surge on Runemaster's Skill because the fatigue gain is an effect, not the cost of the skill.
 
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Sean Houston
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Are hero abilities intended to work as well? Does a Dark Charmed Nanok receive his free surge?
 
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DJ DJ
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SeanLuc wrote:
Are hero abilities intended to work as well? Does a Dark Charmed Nanok receive his free surge?


I don't see why not, but I'm not sure who can spend it, hero or overlord?
 
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