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Subject: Battle Point System and Tournament Byes rss

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charles skrobis
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So Recently at an OP event for month 3, we finished up and the same person has won it for all 3 months in a row. So they have a lead of 12 battle points and can now effectively show up and lose every match in the next 2 events, for it to go to counting fleet points.

Given this, aside from them suddenly not showing up or having massive failure in every battle from here on out, is there a way to actually catch up at this point, like battle points in month 6 like in month 3, or is it more just competing for each month's prize ships now, with them walking away with the grand prize half way through the tournament?

Next, what is with the Bye system?

I know it's supposed to not be too harsh, but given that for the second time, people who showed up late and were counted as byes got second and third.

Now while no one is asking for them to get a lose or something like that on their record, they're getting points as if they won, combine with the average of everyone's points, so that they now are as if they did better then half the people who actually played.

So given that they were late rather then last place like it was meant for, they're suddenly second and third place. So it feels like for something like that, they should have gotten a lose for being late.

So does anyone know how to deal with this?
 
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David Montgomery
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To address the first part, that's the person's reward for doing well early on. It's flawed, but it's not.

As for being late, it really depends on the TO. If one person was late, I'd go ahead and give them the bye. If multiple people showed up late, then you either give them losses, or maybe 1.5 battle points rather than 2.
 
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Drew Bishop
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What if the tournament organizers forced the people who win to get 'bye's' so they don't win every tournament?

Is that fair? Can an tourney organizer do that? And if they did, what would happen to them? would there be repercussions for making someone who's good at the game get "less" points to give everyone else a chance?

Because that sounds an awful lot like the OP organizer gets to chose who wins and loses.

Essentially if you get a bye (like I did in my last OP3) it's impossible to win first place. Even though I won my next two games, the points were so astronomically in favor of the other one person who won all 3 games it was extremely demoralizing for me...
 
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Raymond Albright
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so far in our events the middle of the pack and the leaders are separated by only 5 BP so it is still anyone's game.

but if one of our leaders wins again, and in month 3 wins again with the planet multiple times no less it will be hard for people to catch up. which i think is a concern for the morale of the group.

the bye thing is rough. I had one guy show up late, couldn't decide what to do ended up giving him the full bye, but it is because he was honestly apologetic and is a regular. Not sure if that is right or fair, but it seemed it.

I suppose the consolation here is that there are still cool prizes every month. so even if you drop out of the running for the DS9, at least there is compelling participation and competitive prizes still to play for.
 
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Steve Corby
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I'm the TO for my store and I know if people came late, they would get a loss, not a bye, just like we do for Magic tournaments. Not showing up on time (regardless of excuse) and then being rewarded for it is simply poor thinking on the part of your TO.

As far as who gets the bye, if you use the Wizkids software, a bye in the first round is random, but then it seems to be awarded to the player in last place (ties in Battle points broken by Fleet points) in each successive round. If your TO runs the tournament with another system, who gets the bye may be specific to his system or be a totally random person, its hard to say. I have seen no mention by Wizkids how that should be handled.
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Jon NyD

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Month 3 was higher stakes (extra battle points) and we don't know what the 6th OP has in store for people battle-points wise, only that you need 12 to enter the event.

You can always catch the winner. Just gear your fleet more to what he's been putting up so that if you get the chance, give him that loss. Strong players will always be strong players, but you shouldn't gear the rules towards making them lose for a more interesting finish. And there's plenty of different strategies floating around here to make very successful fleets. You just need to fly them very well!

Who knows, WizKids could quadruple the battle points for the 3 rounds in OP6! It would be pretty wide open at that point...

Right now I've won the first two OP's and am really racking my brain about what to do for OP3 this Thursday. The players are all very strong but I have to bring something pretty crazy to win OP3. The competition is really the best part!
 
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Dave Benhart
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jonnyd76 wrote:

Who knows, WizKids could quadruple the battle points for the 3 rounds in OP6! It would be pretty wide open at that point...


This is an absolutely crazy idea. I love it. I don't know if it would work, but I love it.

Let's see, a perfect score first place player would have 53 points vs the perfect (15-0 but fewer fleet points) 2nd place player having 38. I'm guessing there will more that 15 BP (or 18 if including Month 6 rounds) available in Month 6, which could make for some crazy games. Not that it really helps since the first place player has equal access to those points as anyone else.

I'm really glad we've had 2 different winners at my two main stores. No one has broken out a big lead yet.
 
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Val Cassotta
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At our venue, they are having a final event to win DS9. The top fleet player from each Faction will get a shot at it. So, even if someone wins all events, they still have to battle it out for the final prize.
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Jon NyD

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JustinKase wrote:
At our venue, they are having a final event to win DS9. The top fleet player from each Faction will get a shot at it. So, even if someone wins all events, they still have to battle it out for the final prize.


I **really** like this idea! Looking ahead at OP4, I can see how WizKids seemingly is putting some weight on "side quests". You can win, or you can REALLY win...
 
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Brian Compton
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JustinKase wrote:
At our venue, they are having a final event to win DS9. The top fleet player from each Faction will get a shot at it. So, even if someone wins all events, they still have to battle it out for the final prize.


Awesome idea! Very sporting!
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Yeah, some more objectives might be nice to keep it interesting, and I'm not just saying that because the ones I did well at happened to not have the new players increasing the number of matches to a full 3.... whistle
 
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Skyguard
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charles_skrobis wrote:

So does anyone know how to deal with this?


Hey Charles you could take off a month and let the rest of us catch up

The problem we had with OP3 from thinking on it this morning was the double bye that ended up happening. That was largely my fault I as was trying to be a nice and since I'm not officially running the event I didn't want to overstep. I should have been firmer and held to my roll off statement or just given them both losses. I will not let this happen again.

Update: Option 2 that I just thought of, was to let them start but hold them to the same time as the rest of round 1. I would only use this if an even number of players were late. If your on time you should get a bye.

From the rules the bye should be going randomly on the first round then to the lowest battle point player on round 2-3 (not sure if this is battlepoint total or for the month).

The other area to look at is how round are being paired, again late players are making this harder, from the OP rules "Prior to the first Battle Round, players will be assigned opponents randomly" I'm not sure what the right call for round 2 and 3 are. I did it swiss in the OP2 but that seemed to give a lot of power to the first round bye, as you get a win and will most likely not have play the round 1 winner. In OP2 this was the issue that caused problems as the with swiss pairing it let bye players play down in round 2 or 3.



 
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Raymond Albright
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Skyguard wrote:
charles_skrobis wrote:

So does anyone know how to deal with this?


Hey Charles you could take off a month and let the rest of us catch up

The problem we had with OP3 from thinking on it this morning was the double bye that ended up happening. That was largely my fault I as was trying to be a nice and since I'm not officially running the event I didn't want to overstep. I should have been firmer and held to my roll off statement or just given them both losses. I will not let this happen again.

Update: Option 2 that I just thought of, was to let them start but hold them to the same time as the rest of round 1. I would only use this if an even number of players were late. If your on time you should get a bye.

From the rules the bye should be going randomly on the first round then to the lowest battle point player on round 2-3 (not sure if this is battlepoint total or for the month).

The other area to look at is how round are being paired, again late players are making this harder, from the OP rules "Prior to the first Battle Round, players will be assigned opponents randomly" I'm not sure what the right call for round 2 and 3 are. I did it swiss in the OP2 but that seemed to give a lot of power to the first round bye, as you get a win and will most likely not have play the round 1 winner. In OP2 this was the issue that caused problems as the with swiss pairing it let bye players play down in round 2 or 3.





the power of the bye depends heavily on how many people you have playing. If you have a lot, then that person has a disadvantage in terms of fleet points when it comes to final standings. If you have a few it is a bit of an advantage
 
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Allen Gould
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stevecorby wrote:

As far as who gets the bye, if you use the Wizkids software, a bye in the first round is random, but then it seems to be awarded to the player in last place (ties in Battle points broken by Fleet points) in each successive round. If your TO runs the tournament with another system, who gets the bye may be specific to his system or be a totally random person, its hard to say. I have seen no mention by Wizkids how that should be handled.


The way Wizkids does it is fairly standard IMO for Swiss events. You pair from the top, so the person in last will get the bye.
 
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JT Payne
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There are a lot of opinions here and here is mine. If you had two people show late, why did you give them both byes? Why not just have them face of each other, let them have a shortened round of 45 minutes or so, get them caught up with the others and then there would have been no byes?

One of my last OPs had 9 players, we had a player with a first round bye, that player ended up winnning the OP by 5 points. Yes, you could say we were trashing each other's fleets, my first fight I completely wiped my opponent and had control of the planet. When looking at the point totals on the Wizkids event system though, they don't count byes as wins, so the guy who placed 2nd who had a 3-0 record was actually in first place in the event system, followed by me, then the the guy who "won the op." Now I am not sure who is right or wrong, but I seriously want the first round by from now on because of the power it can have in the standings.
 
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