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Lost Wonders (fan expansion for 7 Wonders)» Forums » General

Subject: Lost Wonders 2 - Thoughts & Questions rss

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Shima Tetsuo
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Hi,

Finally, after 10 months of sweating, playing, grumbling and playtesting, the sequel to Lost Wonders is online here.

The first thing I wanted to avoid was falling into complex boards like there was on Lost Wonders. Don't get me wrong, I still love to play with boards like Dominion, Citadels and others but I noticed that my friends grow tired of these faster than with simple boards. Again all 10 boards aren't as simple as Gizah in term of effects, so you still may find some wonders that are too complex for you. Just don't ruin your pleasure in playing them and it will all be fine.


So let's start :

- Cotlliure
I had a crush for a wonder from Corro (another wonder-artist) and I stole one of his power (trade cards with the discard pile). For the other side, I had a god from Myths (another expansion I made) that use a power almost similar to Esteban. As these powers could go for almost any wonder, I made a homage to Collioure, the most beautiful village from France. That's also my girlfriend's origin and since I asked her about all my wonders a hundred of questions and opinions and as she didn't leave me, the least I could do was to offer her a wonder...

- Elysion Pedion
I wanted to do an opposite of Tartaros but couldn't succeed. I had a side that worked only with Cities (had already the coin peace power) and the other that worked only with Leaders, but it wasn't very original. And then I saw a wonder someone else had made with 6 stages ! Yes 6 !! And suddenly I had this idea : "If someone can make a 6 stage wonder , I shall make a 0 stage wonder !" And it was a good idea. A friend of mine who almost never build his wonder felt instantly in love with this one. And Ryan was insisting on keeping the coin peace power, he was right. Putting it on the resource was a nice idea too and it fits the Paradise theme so well...

- Ephyra
Hou, I had a hard time with this one ! I'm a huge fan of aggressive wonder but couldn't result in something that was not too harsh on both Ephyra's neighbors. So when I had this idea of hurting left side on an Age and right side on another Age, I was most pleased. The only downside to this wonder is all the little twists and exceptions I had to put in the rules to fit with other wonders, which can result in people feeling that it must be a complex wonder (same goes for the Trojan Horse). B side may seem weaker than A side due to the nature of the powers but it isn't if you play a green strategy...

- King's Landing
Yay, Game of Throne, yay, a nice picture, yay, I need to make this one !! A side first power is clearly a reference to "Winter is coming" : no war in 1st season (Age I), and then come season 2 with all these fights (Age II). B side powers are reference to : "A Lannister always pay his debt". The second stage power (triggering chains with coins) is very simple but also very cool to play with. The Iron Throne on the the resource is almost the same as the one that is in the boardgame.

- Machu Picchu
I love the Great Wall and its flexibility and I always wanted to have a Machu Picchu wonder (I still miss a good Taj Mahal wonder too...). So here the reflexion was quite simple : the Great Wall A uses middle stage powers from the first set of official wonders, so Machu Picchu A also uses middle stage powers from the "first" set that remains available... Great Wall B uses Cities powers, so Machu Picchu uses Leaders powers. And it worked quite well !

- Myst
This one was also fun to make for a good reason, I could work with Ryan and this collaboration ended in playtesting, hundred of email, thoughts, reflexions... Well it was really nice ! I let him talk about this one himself, since he's the Myst Master (he or his wife)...

- Nibbur
"Hmmm, I really like Abu Simbel, but my friends are more Cities fan than Leaders fan..." And So it begans. I've got A side pretty fast with the "x2" power, B side was harder. But I really think B side is a success : I've got many friends that are always complaining about the green strategy, that you have to go full green or almost nothing. If you think alike, then this wonder is for you. You play green cards and then you transform them in something else. So you have to play green in order not to play green, confusing ? No, just have a try... For the theme, I searched what could replace Abu Simbel's sarcophagi and since I'm a maths teacher, I quickly found some cool reference about the stone tablet from Nippur.

- Pompeii
I think there isn't much to say about this one. It's simple, original, the theme is really strong and I love the art. I was really lucky with this one since I always wanted to have my own Pompeii but I was stuck with the power I have (originally, it destroyed neighbors card, but that had no sense at all, Pompeii did not destroyed neighbors, it was destroyed by a volcano, the volcano couldn't hit neighbors leaving Pompeii untouched...). Very happy with this one.

- Springfield
Sorry guys, I know there was a debate on BGG about this but I have to admit that I simply love beer. And when they announced that the Manneken Pis had no beer anymore, I had to do something, Belgium beer are so awesome ! And since I love the Simpsons show, had a good picture and definitively wanted Homer to eat a resource...

- Trojan Horse
This one came this summer. The idea of making a trojan horse was in my head for some time, but I couldn't find something cool enough that went with this horse... And if I still think that the idea of invading other wonders is nice, having an extra-card and tons of peculiar situations is not so good. It's not a hard wonder to play with, but still, all these little rules bothers me a bit. But the picture is so impressive !

Voilà, voilà... lot of text... robot
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Jono Naito
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Wow! This is so fantastic!

I have to say, just right off the bat I think Nibbur is utterly genius. It takes a strategy and turns it on its head- much like Stonehenge with resource hoarding and Abu Simbel with high-cost leaders. The idea that a science card could now, to a particular player, supply bonuses to other strategies means a lot, and I am glad you made this! I think we will likely put it in our game group's rotation once they acclimate to your other wonders (Introduced El Dorado for the first time this week- it caused a strong stir, but it was a good one!).
 
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Shima Tetsuo
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Thanks, I have to say that I always wanted green card to do something more than simply scoring points. And the amount of green cards needed to really have some VP was so high that good players could always counter this strategy. Here you need only 2 green, and if no one jumps into the green strategy, you can drop the construction of your wonder and go green, so it's very flexible.

It's also funny that every time I tried to make a "green" wonder, it took a lot of playtesting for always the same result : "it's too powerful" or "it's too weak". For Nibbur, I made one version, playtested 10 times and we declared that it was a good one (after that we played with this one just for pleasure... )
 
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Jamie McCloy
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Thanks for some more excellent wonders! Love all of these and the Lost Wonders original set!!
 
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Jono Naito
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Shima san wrote:
Thanks, I have to say that I always wanted green card to do something more than simply scoring points. And the amount of green cards needed to really have some VP was so high that good players could always counter this strategy. Here you need only 2 green, and if no one jumps into the green strategy, you can drop the construction of your wonder and go green, so it's very flexible. )


I have been wrestling with a similar idea for Military cards and a Terracotta Army wonder, but instead of Mummify the effect would be called Entomb (like burying the soldiers and weapons for posterity). I am not sure what the benefit would be, but it would be similar to Abu Simbel.

Shima san wrote:
It's also funny that every time I tried to make a "green" wonder, it took a lot of playtesting for always the same result : "it's too powerful" or "it's too weak". For Nibbur, I made one version, playtested 10 times and we declared that it was a good one (after that we played with this one just for pleasure... )


I really like it! I have questioned the efficacy of many of the green fan-made wonders (including Lhasa... I just can't bear to add more points to science most of the time!). This is truly an excellent approach!
 
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Shima Tetsuo
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atsuuuuuu wrote:

I have been wrestling with a similar idea for Military cards and a Terracotta Army wonder, but instead of Mummify the effect would be called Entomb (like burying the soldiers and weapons for posterity). I am not sure what the benefit would be, but it would be similar to Abu Simbel.

Hey, that's also very interesting ! The only problem is that red cards score during the play, so that would be really hard to calibrate. But still linking the Terracotta Army with the burying of red card is really nice, it would fit the theme very well !

I would be glad to play a wonder like this ! (and no I'm not going to steal that idea... I need a serious break now with making boards...)
 
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Jono Naito
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The way I thought it could calibrate was through three scenarios:

The first, where you get too many military cards and realize you went overboard and want to get some points out of the extra shields (this could be risky though!).

The second, where you get a hand of military and fid it useless, especially in the third age.

The third, where you build up some military, win some battles, but get phenomenally overpowered and desire to cash in on some now-useless cards.
 
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Gregory Mucklow
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Awesome! Many thanks for the new wonders, Shima!

I'm interested to know how play testing turned out on King's Landing with the chaining ability. It seems quite powerful to be able to play pretty much any green/blue in ages II/III for just 1 coin?! Didn't this annihilate the competition in testing?
 
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Shima Tetsuo
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Thanks !

This stage has a lot of discussion in our group. It first started with 3 coins for triggering chains, but that was a ridiculously high price for this power. No one were using it, nor building the wonder.

2 pieces for triggering chains was a lot better but still too weak. People having this wonder were trying to build less resources than usual but doing so, their neighbors stopped them by building free stuff leaving to King's Landing cards it couldn't afford like Guilds, Palace, etc. And those who build a correct amount of resource were using the triggering power once or twice (yeah, it was often cheaper to build these card by buying resource) during play making it an awful investissement.

And then we arrived with 1 piece for triggering chains. The feeling was very pleasant. People could use this power 3-4 times during a play, almost consuming the 6 coins collected on the first stage (don't forget that the 2 first stages are usually worth 8VP (Gizah A has always be my reference), here you have 6 pieces and a cool power instead, you have to gain those 8VP). So no, it wasn't excessive as I first feared.

Now I feel that this wonder could be a killer if you master quite well 7 Wonders, receive King's Landing and that the people you play have a lower level. In my group, we're all looking how everyone is playing, if someone is taking a lead in a color (like green), he won't last long...

So no, even if it usually allows paying Age III green cards and some blue for free, it's not overpowered. Again, it depends the group you're playing with. I said that in a other post, the synergy each group seems to have is really hard for me to calibrate. But I try...


 
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Gregory Mucklow
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Thanks for the explanation and background on that stage. On reflection I think you are right: to be fair it relies on the other players recognizing the potential and working to limit how many times it can be used. If you are playing with newbies then it could really be unfair!
I've printed it out now just need to paste it to some board so I can give it a go!
(It makes me think about a GoT set of leaders and other wonders!)
 
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Andrew Wilkins
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Thanks for all of these Lost Wonders. My wife and I play 7 Wonders a lot and it is nice to have lost of interesting new wonders to play with alongside the original ones! thumbsup
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