Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Enhanced Facilities rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The idea here is to make Facilities broader and less fiddly. As is, they have fairly low return-on-investment, and with only the two types it's a little stale.

• N is equal to the number of Space Docks you control.
• There are Six types of Facilities. Each has a a benefit and a cost. When you build facilities, any resources that planet provides count toward the cost. (Note: Costs need to be playtested). You can build N Facilities at a time; You may control one of any particular facility, and up to N on any particular planet, and up to 2N in total. Those in excess are immediately destroyed; you may choose which.
• If a planet has multiple refresh abilities, they are all triggered if you choose to exhaust the planet during Refresh.
• Improving a Facility: You can upgrade a facility to an improved version by "building over" the previous facility. The facility must have been in place the entire game round. An improved facility provides double the benefit. Improved facilities do not count as the basic facility for how many you can control (in other words, you could have 1 Laboratory, or 1 Improved Laboratory, or a Laboratory and an Improved Laboratory, but you couldn't have two Laboratories or two Improved Laboratories).

Otherwise, use existing Facility rules, as per Shattered Empire.

Laboratory
Cost: 1
Benefit: Increases the value of any Tech Specialties on this planet by 1.

Naval Academy
Cost: 3
Benefit: The planet gains a Fighter refresh.

Military Base
Cost: 2
Benefit: The planet gains a Ground Troop refresh.

Trade Outpost
Cost: 2
Benefit: The planet gains a Trade Good refresh.

Colony
Cost: 0
Benefit: The planet gains +1 Influence.

Refinery
Cost: 0
Benefit: The planet gains +1 Resources

I would use the six-player Settlers of Catan pieces if I were to try this, with Towns as basic facilities and Cities as improved facilities, with the following color matchups;

Laboratory - Orange
Naval Academy - Blue
Military Base - Red
Trade Outpost - Green
Refinery - Brown
Colony - White

Though some other setup with different tokens could work, if you had access to them.

This is very rough - I worked it out as I typed it, and the costs are probably off. What do you think?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
This at least avoids the base game problem that whoever gets started first can bogart the limited supply; I like the idea of limiting it to Space Docks.

I think the Fighter refresh is overvalued; it's only 1 resource. The GF one is more use because at least the GFs can always be placed, and might be valuable during initial expansion. If the Naval Academy also provided a capacity for fighters, it would be more use.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My thinking on valuing them the way I did was that Fighters can screen, making them more valuable in the long run. Though adding a Fighter Capacity is a good idea; Capacity 2 to account for the ships it creates?

For my own games I was going to limit the number of facilities to the number of tokens I have, but since I'm using the Catan pieces that's 4 improved and 5 basic of each. Technically it's possible to reach the bottom of that well if playing with more than four players, but with six types of facilities it'd probably be rare. And that's perfect for the 4p games I prefer...

EDIT: I should clarify what I intended for the Laboratory. As written, It could interact oddly with the double-tech planets from Shards; the intent was for it to increase those to 3. Luckily there aren't any mixed-tech individual planets. That'd throw a wrench into the wording.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
astralarchivist wrote:
My thinking on valuing them the way I did was that Fighters can screen, making them more valuable in the long run. Though adding a Fighter Capacity is a good idea; Capacity 2 to account for the ships it creates?


Or Capacity 3, to match the way that Spacedocks were apparently designed by someone ignorant of the quantities in which Fighters are manufactured. :-/

Quote:
For my own games I was going to limit the number of facilities to the number of tokens I have, but since I'm using the Catan pieces that's 4 improved and 5 basic of each.


I wouldn't let game mechanics hang on available hardware.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eh. Like I said, for my preferred mode of play, it's the same either way. If I polish this up and really like it, I'll track down better (or at least more) components, but for now it works.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin DeOlden
United States
Chino
California
flag msg tools
badge
3D board game prints: www.3dhubs.com/service/3dgaming
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
These are the ones I add to the game.


There are four laboratories in each of the four colors.
Labs cost 1 Tech Counter. (Or 1 resource if not using tech counter variant)

There are 6 Biodomes available.
Biodome costs both 1 resource and 1 influence and gives a planet +1, +1

there are 4 Barracks available (probable changing this one as it is rarely purchased)
This gives GF Sustain damage ability and it gives it the amount of GF available to the number of the influence the planet has.
Example - Mecatol Rex would give up to 6 Ground Forces the Sustain Damage ability.

There are 6 Fighter Base facilities available.
Cost 2
Gives the planet the ability to support 3 fighters without a SD or Carrier and it allows the Fighters to use the fighter ambush (Distant Sun ability) so no anti-Fighter shots at these Fighters.

Fuel Mining
Cost 3
Attach only on a planet next to or in a Nebula
Gives all ships in the system +1 movement.

Asteroid Mining
cost 3
Must be on a planet next to or in an Asteroid field
Gives that planet +2 resources
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance Harrop
United States
Manassas
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Martin, I like the fuel mining.

The lack of play of facilities is caused, IMHO, by having too many systems to exploit from the start of the game. If the layout is too rich, and the players know this, they will spend their time taking new systems and planets rather than investing in what they pick up early. Practically, the game ends before all the available tiles are exploited anyway, so why spend time investing in your backfield?

If you want to see more facility investment, you should probably design a poorer universe in which to play.

I limit players to having only four facilities by using the buildings from Risk 2210 as the marker for where they are placed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's a polished version of the variant I had earlier. I reduced the cost of everything but Colonies and Refineries.

Enhanced Facilities
There are Six types of Facilities. Each has a a benefit and a cost, described below. When you build facilities, any resources the planet you are developing provides count toward the cost.

Improving a Facility: You can upgrade a facility to an improved version by "building over" the previous facility. The facility must have been in place the entire game round. An improved facility provides double the benefit.

You may control only one of any particular type of facility. Improved facilities count as a separate type of facility for this purpose.

Space Docks affect the number of facilities you can control at a time. Each Space Dock provides the following benefits;
• You can build one facility at a time per Space Dock you control.
• Any single planet may have no more facilities than the number of Space Docks you control.
• You can control no more than twice the number of Space Docks you control at a time. Those in excess are immediately destroyed; you may choose which.

If a planet has multiple refresh abilities, they are all triggered if you choose to exhaust the planet during Refresh.

Instead of using cards, facilities and improved facilities are represented by tokens placed on the planets. Each facility has an associated color. If a planet starts the game with a facility in play as the result of a premade map, it is not destroyed the first time that planet is conquered. As with Space Docks and PDSs, facilities are not destroyed if an Agent participates in a successful invasion combat.

Otherwise, use existing Facility rules, as per Shattered Empire.

Laboratory (White)
Cost: 0
Benefit: The planet gains another tech specialty of any type it already had.

Naval Academy (Blue)
Cost: 2
Benefit: The planet gains a Fighter refresh and a Fighter Capacity of 2.

Military Base (Orange)
Cost: 1
Benefit: The planet gains a Ground Troop refresh.

Trade Outpost (Brown)
Cost: 1
Benefit: The planet gains a Trade Good refresh.

Colony (Red)
Cost: 0
Benefit: The planet gains +1 Influence.

Refinery (Green)
Cost: 0
Benefit: The planet gains +1 Resources.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theo Mags
Australia
flag msg tools
Great ideas here Will/Martin! Reminds me of another post on this concept where the OP had different facilities of up to 3 improvement levels for each facility type.

A couple of suggestions here with some ideas that have been floating around in my head for some time.

I would streamline some of the concepts to make them easier to play with.

Eg costings to be uniform ie 2 resources for each facility and exhausting of planet. This may seem expensive but if you incorparate with some of the concepts below you would provide motivation to build and upgrade.
Allowing different combinations of facilities on the same planets as some combinations may become OP eg enhanced refinery and trade station. Maybe you can only make use of one L3 facility of each type each round. So if you capture a second facility of the same type, while it remains, you can only use one of these types at L3.
When planet is invaded with facility, facility is not automatically destroyed. Instead it is downgraded one level. ie level 3 becomes level 2, Level 1 is destroyed unless shock troops/agent is present.

Ive thought about making use of the industry SC from SOtT, but instead of 4 resources of free units being created, primary ability allows building of SD or 2 free facilities without exhauting planets. Secondary involves spending 1 CC for 1 free facility/upgrade.

This is a great way of getting extra SC into the game for 4/8 payer games.

eg of Enhanced facilities

Naval academy
L1 fighter refresh up to 1 resource worth of fighters. support 2 fighters in system
L2 3 fighter refresh (1.5 resources worth) and support for up to 3 fighters in system.
L3 refresh may be used to build up to 2 resources worth of ships in system (eg use refresh to build 2 destroyers/1 cruiser). Support up to 4 fighters.

Colony
L1 +1 influence
L2 +2 influence
L3 +2 influence, +1 CC during the status phase.

Laboratory (White)
L1 The planet gains another tech specialty of any type it already had.
L2 The planet gains +2 tech specialty of any type it already had.
L3 The planet gains +2 tech specialty of any type it already had, and +1 for all techs in general

Refinery
L1 +1 resource
L2 +2 resources
L3 +2 resources, +2 fleet supply in systems containing SDs.

Military base
L1 Refresh ability for 1 resource worth of GFs
L2 Refresh ability provides 2 shock troops
L3 Refresh ability provides 2 shock troops. GFs gain +1 to combat rolls, and can capture installations like STs. During Invasion combat, treat Facility as PDS.

Trade Station
L1 refresh ability resources-> TGs
L2 +1 TG during Trade SC (not for each trade agreement)
L3 When recieveing TGs with Trade SC, may instead produce units at one of your SDs to the value of TGs acquired.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The reason I structured it the way I did was twofold; first, I wanted it to be easy to remember, and second, I wanted it to use existing refresh abilities. That's why the "Refresh for 3 Fighters" type ability was a no-go; same for avoiding a "use only one per turn" rule, or why I kept the destruction on invasion (to keep it working like Space Docks in as many situations as possible). In that light, the 3 levels is less streamlined. Costs are really easy to remember, too; 2 for Naval, 1 for military/trade, 0 otherwise.

I actually don't think Improved Refinery + Trade Outpost would be OP; either way, it's 2 resources / turn after two rounds of development for a cost of one or more resources; remember, refresh abilities immediately exhaust a planet, so you can only benefit from the resource value OR the Trade Refresh in that case. The most powerful combination, I think, would be Trade Outpost / Naval Academy, but depending on when you start that's at least 2 and possibly four rounds of development and an expenditure of 6 resources (or more, if your planet had a larger resource value than 3) to change a planet from "Use me like normal" to "Immediately exhaust me for 4 TG and 4 Fighters". If you only use it once, you've spent exactly as much as normal for a delayed benefit, but later turns will earn you more. And you can bet that planet's a huge target now, especially for anyone with Agents. (leastways, by my variant)

The Industry change is an interesting idea, though. I'll have to look into that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theo Mags
Australia
flag msg tools
Yeh, my intention on level 3 facilities was to give incentive to develop improved facilities and provide a global bonus that works regardless of if planets been exhausted. And provide something really tangible with the players overall strategy.

My real reservation on allowing enhanced facilities (and more so with my idea) is the possibility that it may make players turtle in protecting their precious investment.. im not sure on this.

I do think that just like over researching techs there will be a limiting factor on the usefulness of facility building, but there are combinations that may be too strong in certain circumstances. Another that comes to mind is Arborec with improved military bases providing double refresh, with 4 GFs each round. I think this is huge for them especially.

On streamlining, you make some pretty good points there, and Im really interesting on hearing your experiences with this with playtesting (are you there yet?). Would be great to hear how you go..
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nothing past theorycrafting yet, but I'm working on getting regular playgroups set up in my area.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Theo Mags
Australia
flag msg tools
The thread has inspired me to have a go at facilities. Ive taken ideas from this thread and and an earlier one (Lamach Head's Facility and construction SC) and merged them with a couple more ideas.

The idea here is to allow a player to tweak their starting resource/influence pool with additions in any area that works with their strategy. What I like about the concept is that it means that a player with a placement in a poorer area of the galaxy can still compensate for what they lack.

As such my idea works like this..

Facilities work the same way as before, with the following changes:

-They have a increased resource cost associated with them.
-Base and improved (ie level 1 and 2) facilities cost 2 resources as well as exhausting the target planet.
-Advanced (level 3) cost 4 resources each but with the excepetion of resource facilities, provide a global bonus that applies while you own the facility (regardless of if the planet is exhausted). Resource facilities are already strong enough (put a SD on them) and as such dont need further boost.
-Each planet can have only 1 facility type, home systems cannot have any.
-Each player can only have one of each facility type. At any time a player takes control of another of the same type, the subsequent ones always destroyed.
-Planets with existing refresh abilities are considered to have built in facilities (and the same effects). The only difference here is IF these are not developed further (ie upgraded) the player may have another facility of the same type.
--trade stations are considered a Commerce Center level1
--Primor = Military Barracks
--Hopes end = Improved Military Barracks
--Mirage = Naval Shipyard (also gets the 3 fighter support)

-The Industry SC from SOTT is used here and works as such
--Sits at Initiative value 8 (Beaurocracy moves to 9).
--Primary ability allows player to build a SD on planet they own even if they have taken control on the same round (exception cant be used on MR!).
--OR allows the player to build/upgrade up to 2 facilities with -4 resource cost without exhausting the planets.
--Secondary involves spending the CC to immediately build 1 facility at -2 resource cost without exhausting the planet.

Ive gone and used Lamach Head's Facilities he originally created as templates for my own, so a big thanks goes out to him!





Thats pretty much it, trying to keep changes as minimal as possible here with existing rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm going to see if a much simpler variant of my earlier idea might work - gonna see if my group'll try this out. Basic idea is to make them purely additive, like Leaders are. Leaders don't cost anything, you just have them. Same idea here.

FACILITIES
• This completely replaces any existing Facilities rules.

• During the Status Phase before refreshing planet cards, you may put a basic facility on a planet you have controlled since the beginning of the round, or replace a basic facility with an advanced facility of the same type. You may control only one of each type of basic facility and one of each type of advanced facility. A planet may have no more than two basic facilities or one advanced facility at a time.

• Facilities can be scuttled.

• Refresh abilities stack with each other.

• Facilities are destroyed after a successful invasion combat.

Colony (Red)
Basic: +2 Influence
Advanced: +4 Influence

Military Base (Orange)
Basic: Ground Force Refresh
Advanced: 2x Ground Force Refresh

Naval Academy (Blue)
Basic: Fighter Refresh
Advanced: 2x Fighter Refresh

Refinery (Green)
Basic: +1 Resources
Advanced: +2 Resources
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Starkiller
United States
Wasilla
Alaska
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
astralarchivist wrote:
Basic idea is to make them purely additive, like Leaders are. Leaders don't cost anything, you just have them. Same idea here.

Ehhhh...don't really like this, personally. Like many of the ideas on this thread, though.

Not motivated to try any yet, because facilities haven't been used enough in my games. I can see looking into this in the future, though. Your experiences with playtests are invaluable!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Basically, attaching a resource cost to them means they don't get used. There're too many other more important things to buy! There's still a cost in time - you can't just drop 'em all at once.

I do think there's something missing, though... perhaps an additional limit on the number of facilities controlled? Maybe 4, or two per Space Dock...

EDIT: I've been thinking about this. If I were to give them a resource cost, it'd have to be 1; 0 is too cheap, and at 2 you'd be better off spending those resources elsewhere (read: They'd almost never be used).

The changes to the above, then, to give them a cost;

1) Built at the same time and under the same conditions as Space Docks. Can build or advance one per round.
2) All cost 1 Resource to build or advance.
3) (Undecided) Treated as Space Docks for the purpose of Invasion Combat (Frex, an Agent in the invading force would take control of it). Since a player cannot control more than one of each basic and advanced facility, if this would take the player over that limit the player must immediately destroy one of them (similar to the rules for exceeding Fleet Supply).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Thibault
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A friend pointed out to me that this creates a "correct" play; It's very likely that each player will want to have a basic refinery turn one, and an advanced one turn two, on their home system, if only because the guaranteed increase in Resources will pile up by the end of the game - it ends up being between 9 and 15 points you're passing up by not doing that, depending on when Rex shows up.

This revised version of the variant attempts to address this by creating abilities that either do not provide resource value, or which do so at a cost.

• This completely replaces any existing Facilities rules.

• Basic facilities are built using the same rules as Space Docks. Basic facilities cost 1 Resource.

• A basic facility can be upgraded to an advanced facility if it has been on a planet since the beginning of the round. Otherwise, upgrading a facility uses the same rules as building a Space Dock. Upgrading a facility costs 1 Resource.

• You may control only one of each type of basic facility and one of each type of advanced facility. A planet may have no more than two basic facilities or one advanced facility at a time.

• Facilities are treated as Space Docks for the purpose of destroying or gaining control of them.

Intelligence Agency (Red)
Basic: Once per round, you can skip a turn. Put a control marker on your Race Sheet to indicate you've used this ability.
Advanced: Twice per round, you can skip a turn. Each time you do, put a control marker on your Race Sheet to indicate you've used this ability. You may not use this ability two turns in a row.

Trade Outpost (Orange)
Basic: When you activate this system, if you have a trade agreement with at least one other player, you each gain a trade good.
Advanced: When you activate this system, if you have a trade agreement with at least one other player, you gain two trade goods and each of the others gain one trade good.

Colony (Green)
Basic: You have two additional votes.
Advanced: You have five additional votes.

Space Station (Blue)
Basic: Fighter Capacity 3.
Advanced: Fighter Capacity 5. You have +1 Fleet Supply in this system.

EDIT: Trade Outpost is the one I'm least sure about. I want something that increases the value of holding a trade agreement at the expense of also helping the others that trade with you, but I'm not sure about the trigger or the exact effect. Perhaps make it an automatic effect during the Status Phase? For example;

Basic: At the beginning of the Status Phase, you gain one trade good for each active trade agreement you hold, and any other player with one of your trade contracts gains one trade good.
Advanced: At the beginning of the Status Phase, you gain two trade goods for each active trade agreement you hold, and any other player with one of your trade contracts gains one trade good.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.