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Subject: Questions on the Borg rss

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Ellis Norris
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A lot of people are excited about the Borg coming out. (Not me, especially. I feel like The Show That Will Not Be Named pretty much nerfed them into Meh-ness)I see a lot of speculation on their tech, but little of anything else. I'm wondering, who are their captains going to be? How high will their skill be? And will there be a way to get at them "sideways"?
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Dave Benhart
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They should have only 1 Unique Captain: the Queen. (boo) Probably Skill 6. She'll be in the Sphere pack.

Hopefully they will be able to move any direction and facing won't matter. Probably green maneuvers at the "1 straight" (forward or back) type. Probably can't move faster than 2 or 3 though.

360 firing arc out to Range 2, but relatively weak primary weapon. Say a 3.

Tractor Beam tech upgrade that is much better than the Klingon tractors we already have.

Eventually we could get a Hugh captain with the Type 03 ship. Maybe even a Lore captain with that too. I really hope a Type 03 ship comes out.

This is all 100% pure speculation on my part.

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)
 
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Will Holsclaw
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davedujour wrote:

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


Agreed, actually, though I don't think it hurt the movie itself so much. But the introduction of the Queen did more or less undercut everything that had made the Borg terrifying before.
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Jonathan M D Thomas
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davedujour wrote:
They should have only 1 Unique Captain: the Queen. (boo) Probably Skill 6. She'll be in the Sphere pack.

Hopefully they will be able to move any direction and facing won't matter. Probably green maneuvers at the "1 straight" (forward or back) type. Probably can't move faster than 2 or 3 though.

360 firing arc out to Range 2, but relatively weak primary weapon. Say a 3.

Tractor Beam tech upgrade that is much better than the Klingon tractors we already have.

Eventually we could get a Hugh captain with the Type 03 ship. Maybe even a Lore captain with that too. I really hope a Type 03 ship comes out.

This is all 100% pure speculation on my part.

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


The queen has to be in the diamond. I really don't think a 'move any direction' system will work. If they use the same base, and they will, this is just not feasible. I expect 4 bank and 6 forward with a dose of reverse.

The Borg were never 'nerfed' per say, but the Federation did finally put an emphasis on building better warships to combat them. Better shields, plating, weapons and those quantum torpedoes go a long way. There is a big difference between using 100 year old Mirandas and Excelsiors versus state of the art Akiras, Defiants, Sovereigns, etc. That and Picard knew the weaknesses of their technology so that helped to better combat them as well.
 
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Dave Benhart
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jmdt784 wrote:
davedujour wrote:
They should have only 1 Unique Captain: the Queen. (boo) Probably Skill 6. She'll be in the Sphere pack.

Hopefully they will be able to move any direction and facing won't matter. Probably green maneuvers at the "1 straight" (forward or back) type. Probably can't move faster than 2 or 3 though.

360 firing arc out to Range 2, but relatively weak primary weapon. Say a 3.

Tractor Beam tech upgrade that is much better than the Klingon tractors we already have.

Eventually we could get a Hugh captain with the Type 03 ship. Maybe even a Lore captain with that too. I really hope a Type 03 ship comes out.

This is all 100% pure speculation on my part.

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


The queen has to be in the diamond. I really don't think a 'move any direction' system will work. If they use the same base, and they will, this is just not feasible. I expect 4 bank and 6 forward with a dose of reverse.

The Borg were never 'nerfed' per say, but the Federation did finally put an emphasis on building better warships to combat them. Better shields, plating, weapons and those quantum torpedoes go a long way. There is a big difference between using 100 year old Mirandas and Excelsiors versus state of the art Akiras, Defiants, Sovereigns, etc. That and Picard knew the weaknesses of their technology so that helped to better combat them as well.


The queen will be in the Sphere. 1) it's the first Borg ship we're getting. 2) She was first in the Sphere in First Contact before anywhere else 3) What other Captain do they have? Imagine the outcry if the Sphere came without a Captain of any Skill.

Now if they do a stronger/second Queen with the Diamond, I could see that. No reason there can't be two versions of her. Two different actresses played her anyway. Why not have 2 queens with 2 different pictures?

Although if they wanted to release the Borg "right", release the Cube first with a variety of tech/weapon upgrades but no crew or unique captains. That would be both awesome and funny.

As for movement, what if they gave the Borg the Sensor Echo 1 (only) Action w/o being cloaked? That would simulate it's ability to move in any direction.
 
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Thomas Landy
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Illyth wrote:
davedujour wrote:

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


Agreed, actually, though I don't think it hurt the movie itself so much. But the introduction of the Queen did more or less undercut everything that had made the Borg terrifying before.



When the Borg come out, grab a stick of Juicy Fruit -- the taste is gonna mooove ya!
They'll assimilate this, and assimilate tha-at,
And then players will be crying the faction is all that (and a bag of chips, of course)!
 
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Dave Benhart
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Illyth wrote:
davedujour wrote:

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


Agreed, actually, though I don't think it hurt the movie itself so much. But the introduction of the Queen did more or less undercut everything that had made the Borg terrifying before.


It was a slow downhill slide with each appearance of the Borg until First Contact. The Queen jumped them off the cliff. Or the shark. Or nuked their fridge. Or something.

Ron Moore actually acknowledges that he/they originally made the Borg too powerful during the commentary of the BSG mini-series. He wanted to be careful to not make the same mistake with the Cylons.
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Ellis Norris
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davedujour wrote:
They should have only 1 Unique Captain: the Queen. (boo) Probably Skill 6. She'll be in the Sphere pack.

Eventually we could get a Hugh captain with the Type 03 ship. Maybe even a Lore captain with that too.

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


Ok. The Borg queen is a no duh. Hugh, eeeeeh I don't know about him. I think we'll see him, but as a capt?dI'd like to see him as a possible Fed card to be played like the tribbles, but for the Borg. He gets placed back into the Collective, and over time messes with their effectiveness somehow. Lore, yes. Somehow. Locutus, of course.

I say Voyager nerfed them, because it seemed like every 3 episodes the Borg popped up, and got owned. That was frustrating and, in my opinion, a sign of lazy writing! "Crap, out of ideas! Let's throw the Borg at them.angry
 
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Dave Benhart
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LandoG wrote:
davedujour wrote:
They should have only 1 Unique Captain: the Queen. (boo) Probably Skill 6. She'll be in the Sphere pack.

Eventually we could get a Hugh captain with the Type 03 ship. Maybe even a Lore captain with that too.

FYI, it wasn't Voyager that nerfed the Borg. As much as I dislike Voyager, give the credit where it's due: Rick Berman and Bannon Braga in First Contact. Good movie, except for almost everything on the Enterprise. (Absolutely everything in engineering.)


Ok. The Borg queen is a no duh. Hugh, eeeeeh I don't know about him. I think we'll see him, but as a capt?dI'd like to see him as a possible Fed card to be played like the tribbles, but for the Borg. He gets placed back into the Collective, and over time messes with their effectiveness somehow. Lore, yes. Somehow. Locutus, of course.

I say Voyager nerfed them, because it seemed like every 3 episodes the Borg popped up, and got owned. That was frustrating and, in my opinion, a sign of lazy writing! "Crap, out of ideas! Let's throw the Borg at them.angry


Duh, of course they'll have Locutus. He'll come with the Cube I bet. How could I forget Locutus as a Borg captain?shake
 
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Charles Silbernagel
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We will definitely see a Locutus captain card. Question is...what kind of ability and stats will he have? I'd say maybe 7-skill. Really tough to guess an ability though. It could be anything!

As to Borg ships, I'm pretty sure they'll have small 360 degree firing arcs, high hull, likely little or no shields. A tech upgrade or ship ability will likely be "ACTION: Repair 1 hull" to represent their regenerative powers.
 
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Ellis Norris
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How about regen options? As in, you can regen 1-3 hull/ shields, but no attack this turn?
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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How small you've all become, organic minds are such fragil things. The Borg don't have to follow any of the conventions the other ships do. Crew, tech, upgrades, they could develop a completely new system to represent them, unique, perfect.
 
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Jason Becker
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I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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I'm assuming that the Borg will not let you cross-faction, in the same manner as the Decipher 2nd Edition STCCG ("You can not command another Headquarters mission").

In my mind, it makes sense, off the top of my head, I can only think of one Voyager episode where the two worked together.

I could see it where the Borg would basically ingore everything around them and just go out and do what they want to accomplish the mission at hand. Not allowing them to cross faction, would give them "special" abilities (like assimilation) that they could use, but wouldn't make it too powerful by putting a 9 Captain on board like Picard or Martok to be able to strike first.
 
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Steve Corby
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Tantive4 wrote:
I'm assuming that the Borg will not let you cross-faction


Wouldn't the Borg be the poster child for ALLOWING cross-faction cards? They are just assimilating the tech/weapons/crew into the collective.
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Jason Becker
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I find your lack of faith disturbing.
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stevecorby wrote:
Tantive4 wrote:
I'm assuming that the Borg will not let you cross-faction


Wouldn't the Borg be the poster child for ALLOWING cross-faction cards? They are just assimilating the tech/weapons/crew into the collective.


Assimilation yes, cross factioning, no. I see it as you have the collective and are able to assimilate other ships/captains/crew/weapons for their own use. You start off with just Borg items and through out your match, you can gain the use of tech from the other player.
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Ellis Norris
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DonMegel wrote:
How small you've all become, organic minds are such fragil things. 


At least we know how to spel... wait...

As for not following the same SOP, you -know- it can't be too different, because there will be a howl of "BAAAWWWW,OP!" that rises from the masses like you wouldn't believe! Personally, i don't care how powerful they could be. I look forward to playing against them. I say BRING IT Borg! I ain't skert!
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Allen Gould
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davedujour wrote:

It was a slow downhill slide with each appearance of the Borg until First Contact. The Queen jumped them off the cliff. Or the shark. Or nuked their fridge. Or something.

Ron Moore actually acknowledges that he/they originally made the Borg too powerful during the commentary of the BSG mini-series. He wanted to be careful to not make the same mistake with the Cylons.


I'd guess part of the problem is that Original Borg didn't serve the purpose they wanted to reuse it for.

Original Borg (as seen in Q Who) were great villains because not only were they powerful enough to be a threat, they *didn't care* about talking or territory or negotiation. Suddenly, here was a threat that they couldn't avoid, couldn't defeat, and couldn't talk their way out of. And then Best of Both Worlds and I,Q showed us the horror of life as a Borg - subsumed into the collective. (And the glimmer of hope that it was possible to rescue people.)

And then... they decided they wanted Borg to be chatty. :/
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Jared Voshall
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Yeah... To me, what made the Borg great was the fact that they were this inevitable, implacable force that were beyond anything that either the setting or the viewers had seen up to that time. The amount of damage that a single cube could do was staggering, and the truly terrifying thing about them was that there was no way of knowing when they would send more than a single cube after us (well, the Federation, but you know what I mean). Until Voyager, we didn't know what kept them on their side of the Galaxy outside of the sheer amount of space they needed to travel through to get to us, and, for all we knew, they had already sent out an invasion fleet. Add to that the fact that they were the antithesis of the Federation, being a collective that only differentiated between each other where needed to fill a particular role as opposed to the Federation which, even when being frustrated with other races' differences, still delighted in them, and you had the perfect long-term enemy for the Federation to go against.

Of course, we've seen where things have gone since then, for better and for worse, but to me, the Borg and still among the most iconic of the Star Trek villains, and the ones that I really hope they get right (having a full 6-month event dedicated to them is certainly a good start).
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brian dupont
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Yeah, there should be only Unique Captain...although you could argue Locutus as another.

BUT, what about the Bioship? How can you have a Unique Captain there?
 
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JT Payne
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colringbk wrote:
Yeah, there should be only Unique Captain...although you could argue Locutus as another.

BUT, what about the Bioship? How can you have a Unique Captain there?


His name will be Bob and I will hold him and love him...
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Chris Cromer

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In terms of captains I think there could be several unique options for the Borg:

1. The Queen- the most obvious choice. I could see her being unique as in you can only have one of her but I would expect multiple versions of her with different abilities. It was eluded to in voyager that there are several if not many of her. I would also think that if she is in your fleet that one of her abilities would or should be that all other Borg ships benefit from her captains skill. It makes sense since she would basically be controlling the entire Borg fleet and not just her ship.

2. Locutus- another choice at a lesser skill

3. Lore

4. Pre severed 7 of 9- she did act as an individual leader of Borg in voyager even before she was severed from the collective

5. Hugh- I think it's harder to sell him as a captain though. He could maybe be a crew upgrade but to be honest he was bad for the Borg in the series so him being an upgrade for them seems weird to me

6. The Collective- it seems to me that the Borg don't really need captains but that they are primarily driven by the collective. Now you could easily say this will be the 0 point captain and I believe that it will be but I also think that in the case of the Borg that the collective as a captain should have a higher skill than 1. I would think any Borg ship controlled by the collective would sit at a skill ranking of at least 4. Even at their worst they have the memories and experience of thousands if not millions of captains so a 0 skill doesn't really jive with me.

7. One(?)- the Borg enhanced with future tech from voyager. Also a stretch. Probably a crew upgrade if anything.
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Sal Bernesky
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Why would Locutus possess all the knowledge of Picard plus the collective and not be a 9?

Personally, I'd like to see a different captain mechanic for the Borg to simulate their collective mind. Like you choose a single captain option and then all of your ships are that skill, or something.
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Gwydion ap Don
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What I would like to see is Borg with no weapon slots. No tech slots. Just crew slots. All the crew slots. And then assimilated civilizations are the strength of the Borg, in whatever combination you decide to utilize. As for a captain, a generic shot of the inside of the cube from Q Who with a piloting skill equal to the number of crew cards on the ship.
 
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hesse honnolly
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I think the Borg cube will probably have a 0 moment dial, will probably have a custom base, And cost 30$ it'll be a bigger model. Probably a 1 man 100 pts team..

I'm just going off the basis that star wars gets 30$ Figures..
 
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Dave Benhart
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seenemo wrote:
I think the Borg cube will probably have a 0 moment dial, will probably have a custom base, And cost 30$ it'll be a bigger model. Probably a 1 man 100 pts team..

I'm just going off the basis that star wars gets 30$ Figures..


Or the Borg Ship is the Grand Prize for the second 6-month OP Borg/Delta Quadrant tournament.

Plus a smaller cube (Tactical Cube?) for others. Maybe just a cardboard representation of the Cube.
 
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