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The Hunters: German U-Boats at War, 1939-43» Forums » Rules

Subject: Day/Night - surfaced/submerged rss

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Lines J. Hutter
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Just worked myself through the rules and I think I got most of it sorted out. Did my first patrol using the charts from the files section (might not be the final ones).

Two questions I couldn't find an answer (or was looking at the wrong place):

1. Can I do a day surfaced attack? Let's say against an unescorted ship? The rules and tables only talk about night surfaced.

2. I can choose between day and night without rolling when following a damaged escorted ship, right? (9.5.7). I cannot follow an unescorted ship, but I can conduct an additional round of combat. In this case can I wait till night (without rolling) to finish it off with my deck gun? Should be possible, but couldn't find anything about day/night decisions for Addl rounds.

Oh, and:
3, The E2 chart lists the following modifiers:
+1 1942
+2 1943
+3 1943
How do I have to read that?

Thanks and greets
Your first German Kaleu
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John Kranz
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Lines42 wrote:
Just worked myself through the rules and I think I got most of it sorted out. Did my first patrol using the charts from the files section (might not be the final ones).

Two questions I couldn't find an answer (or was looking at the wrong place):

1. Can I do a day surfaced attack? Let's say against an unescorted ship? The rules and tables only talk about night surfaced.


Hi, Lines! Yes, you can conduct day surface attack against an unescorted ship.

See Combat 9.0 Procedure section, 3rd sentence. Reference the following, "Choose between submerged or surface attack (including Night Surface Attack), as well as the range to engage the enemy targets."

An unescorted ship is a sitting duck, you can engage with surface combat during the day to deploy your Deck Gun (firing up to two rounds). This is particularly effective as a means to husband your torpedoes for use later in the patrol.

Lines42 wrote:
2. I can choose between day and night without rolling when following a damaged escorted ship, right? (9.5.7). I cannot follow an unescorted ship, but I can conduct an additional round of combat. In this case can I wait till night (without rolling) to finish it off with my deck gun? Should be possible, but couldn't find anything about day/night decisions for Addl rounds.


Correct. Since you are following the damaged ship(s), you can always freely choose Day or Night. See 9.7.5 and reference the second sentence, "If the target ships are already damaged, no roll is necessary; the Kommandant may choose Day or Night."

There is no Day/Night determination when simply seeking an Additional Round of Combat -- whatever the time of day is that you began the engagement, that is what it will be all Additional Rounds of Combat. Just don't forget to roll on the Add'l Round of Combat table under the Encounter Chart...there's a chance an escort may show up. arrrh

Lines42 wrote:
Oh, and:
3, The E2 chart lists the following modifiers:
+1 1942
+2 1943
+3 1943
How do I have to read that?


Yup, notice the chart doesn't read right for the years -- we corrected that in the charts we took to print, so no worries there. The years should be 1941, 1942, and 1943. This reflects the advances made in ASW during the course of the war, per Introduction section. Basically, you are subject to a negative + modifier when rolling for Escort Detection, meaning the likelihood increases that your U-Boat will be detected.

P.S. You are correct, the charts/tables posted are not the final version, which is why that typo showed up on the chart you have for E2 chart.
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Lines J. Hutter
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Hey John.
Thanks fo your answers!
Here are some follow-up questions/thoughts

consimworld wrote:
Yes, you can conduct day surface attack against an unescorted ship.

Okay, here´s the situation.
Day surface attack against unescorted ship. Table U1 has a Night surface modifier. So this doesn´t apply on day surface attack?
Conducting Add´l round. Escort shows up and rolls for detection. Table E2 also only shows a night surface modifier. So again no modifier here although it´s day and it should be even easier to detect?(Again, based on preview tables from the files section).

consimworld wrote:
There is no Day/Night determination when simply seeking an Additional Round of Combat -- whatever the time of day is that you began the engagement, that is what it will be all Additional Rounds of Combat.

Strange. I attack an unescorted ship. I damage it.
Why can´t I wait until night for my additional attack?
But I can decide to go from submerged to surfaced before an additional round, can I?

consimworld wrote:
Yup, notice the chart doesn't read right for the years -- we corrected that in the charts we took to print, so no worries there. The years should be 1941, 1942, and 1943.

Makes much more sense now
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John Kranz
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Lines42 wrote:
Okay, here´s the situation.
Day surface attack against unescorted ship. Table U1 has a Night surface modifier. So this doesn´t apply on day surface attack?


Correct.

Lines42 wrote:
Conducting Add´l round. Escort shows up and rolls for detection. Table E2 also only shows a night surface modifier. So again no modifier here although it´s day and it should be even easier to detect?(Again, based on preview tables from the files section).


Correct, no modifier to apply. But back luck that the Escort showed up since that means you must immediately undergo an Escort Detection attempt regardless of range [see 9.4.3].

consimworld wrote:
There is no Day/Night determination when simply seeking an Additional Round of Combat -- whatever the time of day is that you began the engagement, that is what it will be all Additional Rounds of Combat.
Strange. I attack an unescorted ship. I damage it.
Why can´t I wait until night for my additional attack?
But I can decide to go from submerged to surfaced before an additional round, can I?


First, I'd say see 9.4.2 (and the example provided there) because when up against an unescorted ship target, there is A LOT you can do in the first combat round to try and sink it. If the forward torpedoes don't do the job, you can still deploy your aft torpedo, and even after that your deck gun (if engaging at surface) with 2 ammo rounds before you even have to consider an Add'l Round of Combat. Only if all these options pursued fail in sinking the unescorted ship target(s), would you need to ponder an Add'l Round of Combat which carries some risk.

But back to your original question -- Yes, I understand what you are saying to want more flexibility, but this is the case where the Designer intent here is that when up against unescorted target -- with no visible threat -- you are looking to finish it off IMMEDIATELY. No time to alter trajectory or approach -- as U-Boat Kommandant, you are looking to engage and finish off the unescorted ship asap to get the job done and get the hell out. I'm sure Greg the designer can confirm that, so don't shoot the messenger!...this is one of those questions I would prefer the designer of the game to address. But I can at least provide answers for the "RAW" rules-as-written which is my obligation to follow to provide proper game support to you.
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Gregory Smith
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Hello,

The problem with attacking an unescorted ship (and NOT sinking it immediately) is that they are frantically calling for help - so it does normally pay off to sink it in the first combat round. It's not automatic that help arrives.....just depends on how risk adverse you are.

Obviously since it's unescorted you surface and shoot it with as many torpedoes / deck gun rounds as you can in one round.

If by some abysmal stroke of luck it's still floating, you have to either risk detection with a roll or cease attacking it. If you go for a second round of combat, you again can fire up to two deck gun shots and as many torpedoes as you wish.

The rules have been kept reasonably simple and clean to keep it playable ...and I think I've achieved that. As is, it works very well in replicating attacks against unarmed merchants sailing alone. VERY rarely do they ever escape.

Greg
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John Kranz
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Funny...I was just going to sit down and type an additional thought about how that would be the humanitarian thing to do (as help will arrive to help the ill-fated crew), because you can rest assured that target is on the radio pleading for help...and the last thing you want to do is stick around for the show when help arrives (escort). So Greg beat me to the punch...I wanted to add a comment about the target in the radio and you as U-Boat Commandant needing to quickly finish the job, knowing that is the case.

Anyway, case in point, that is why I think Greg as designer is best addressing that question. Thanks, Greg!!
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