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Subject: how to defeat the super spawner??? rss

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joel siragher
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how to defeat the super spawner???

Our overlord gets five (5) threat tokens per turn.
He told us that he gets one threat per character (4) and one for his avatar, plus 10 from his avatar at the beginning of a dungeon.

He put a ton of spawn cards in his overlord deck. He kept turning in cards for extra threat And getting threat from surges.

In addition to the dark priests at one point he had a card that did nothing but give me an extra 10 threat.

This amounted to him spawning almost every turn.

Is there any thoughts on how to counter it now that the game started? Some city enhancements, or feats or something. This makes the game a really big drag for me.

-- ADDED: apparently the OL chose the sorcerer king. This card allows 10 extra threat at the begining of the dungeon. Does that mean at each sub level of the dungeon? (all three of them).

Also, where do you get the magic boat?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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runescience wrote:
-- ADDED: apparently the OL chose the sorcerer king. This card allows 10 extra threat at the begining of the dungeon. Does that mean at each sub level of the dungeon? (all three of them).

No, the 10 Threat bonus is only at the beginning of the dungeon (i.e. the first level). He does gain an additional threat per turn on all levels (Sorcerer King is one of the better avatars).

Two things you mention give me pause: First, are you using the Eyes marker? Road To Legend limits the amount of spawning with the usage of this marker. At the start of every dungeon level, it's face up (Eyes "open"). Once the OL spawns, you flip it face down (Eyes "closed"). The Overlord cannot spawn until the eyes are face up. To do so, the Overlord at any time pays 15 Threat and flips the eyes face up. This is a significant drain on Threat compared the the base game, and it sounds like maybe you missed this key rule?

The other thought, how is he putting a lot of spawn cards in his deck? The overlord should not have access to any additional spawn cards until he purchases Treachery with his experience. In the beginning of the game, he has 0 Treachery, so the first dungeon or two, he shouldn't have enough to buy any Treachery, let alone enough Spawn Treachery to put a lot of spawn cards in his deck. And if he spends on Spawn Treachery, then that means he's not upgrading one of his monster groups so even if he is spawning a lot, they're very weak monsters (Copper level monsters suck). How much Spawn Treachery does he have?

-shnar
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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runescience wrote:
Also, where do you get the magic boat?

Forgot this question. The magic boat is considered a 'Party Upgrade'. These are described on page 4 and also pg 22. In brief, they're added to the city's "shop deck" and so can be purchased at any time the heroes shop.

-shnar
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Shawn Burk
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I'll also add the Overlord can't really win a campaign from dungeons, but he will need to make a good raze attempt with his LTs on Tamalir instead. And that's where his Avatar is weak, his ability doesn't work in the outdoors. Some advice for dungeoneering against him is to know when to run. No really, know when to run. Its important in RtL as it is, but recognizing when he had a good draw of cards and can keep the threat and spawns coming faster than you can knock them down is the moment you should leave if not sooner. Eventually, you'll sneak in some upgrades, gold and perhaps even a chest or two and fight back against that horde somewhat. Good luck.
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Retired Hurt

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All in all, the overlord should consider himself rather lucky (or the heroes should realize they forgot to flee) if he can spawn four times during any dungeon level. Twice is the usual amount.

The Sorcerer King, if he discards everything else, can perhaps spawn every second round, but some of these spawns will be weak and he will have to forfeit trap ability (traps are expensive).

And, as Shnar said, getting those spawn cards isn't easy ; only 35% of the standard deck is made of spawn cards, and some (like Hellhounds) are totally unefficient at start.
 
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joel siragher
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Merrimac wrote:
All in all, the overlord should consider himself rather lucky (or the heroes should realize they forgot to flee) if he can spawn four times during any dungeon level. Twice is the usual amount.

The Sorcerer King, if he discards everything else, can perhaps spawn every second round, but some of these spawns will be weak and he will have to forfeit trap ability (traps are expensive).

And, as Shnar said, getting those spawn cards isn't easy ; only 35% of the standard deck is made of spawn cards, and some (like Hellhounds) are totally unefficient at start.


I am going to carefully inspect his OL deck.

He was taking the 10 at each level, which is why things got so out of hand.

He got at least 3 kills per level, because of his spawning dark priests (red and white), tons of sorcerers, and beastmen.

If he screwed up and over spawned, how do we make the game right? His conquest tokens are pushing and possibly over 40 after one dungeon.


Come to think of it, he was also pulling out bloodapes and the little freak swarmers as well. Kobolds? or something?


 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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There is no real way to fix it, but since you just started the campaign, it's not hard to just reboot it. All those creatures though sound like normal, non-treachery spawns. Did he use the eyes properly? The +20 Threat is a big deal. Also, you need to learn the [RtL] The Art of Blitz...

-shnar
 
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joel siragher
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ill make it my business to read quick and see if we can restart the campaign. We really blew it.
 
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Retired Hurt

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i'm surprised by the "tons of Sorcerers" mention. There is only one card in the OL deck which gives sorcerers ; and at the start of the game it's a weak card.

Apart from the four lesser critters (Kobolds, Skeletons, Beastmen, Spiders), there is only one car that allows you to spawn a specific kind of monster ; and since you need 20+ rounds to go through the pack, the same monster will seldom be spawned twice in a same dungeon. So the mention about multiple Priests (indeed the strongest spawnable monster) is strange too.
 
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joel siragher
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Merrimac wrote:
i'm surprised by the "tons of Sorcerers" mention. There is only one card in the OL deck which gives sorcerers ; and at the start of the game it's a weak card.

Apart from the four lesser critters (Kobolds, Skeletons, Beastmen, Spiders), there is only one car that allows you to spawn a specific kind of monster ; and since you need 20+ rounds to go through the pack, the same monster will seldom be spawned twice in a same dungeon. So the mention about multiple Priests (indeed the strongest spawnable monster) is strange too.


How many cards should he have in his OL deck, without the treachery cards? I have all of the expansions in there.

He was pulling 3 cards a round, instead of two, probably due to some ability he has.

I think the reason we were hitting the same priests on every level is that he was restarting his deck every level, and he shouldn't have been. This is probably why we were seeing the sorcerers and the priests on every level. The last level we were seeing blood apes as well.

Still it was very aggravating and futile seeing the same monsters on every single level of the dungeon. It gave the game that old monster on escalator feeling that, descent 2 doesn't suffer. Of course, if Descent 2 didnt give the 'race' condition for win, every scenario (in basic set) we would have switched to descent 2.


 
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Corbon Loughnan
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runescience wrote:

How many cards should he have in his OL deck, without the treachery cards? I have all of the expansions in there.


48

Quote:
He was pulling 3 cards a round, instead of two, probably due to some ability he has.


Only if he has Evil Genius in play, which is a 25 threat point power card.

Quote:
I think the reason we were hitting the same priests on every level is that he was restarting his deck every level, and he shouldn't have been. This is probably why we were seeing the sorcerers and the priests on every level. The last level we were seeing blood apes as well.

Still it was very aggravating and futile seeing the same monsters on every single level of the dungeon.


Clearly you were playing some rules badly wrong which affected the game a lot. And apparently not shuffling well either.
 
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joel siragher
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This might be asking the same question again in a different manner: But, since nothing penetrates my old skull ill ask it in a different way:

if the OL pulls the evil genius card in level one of the dungeon, it stays in play for level 2 and lvl 3? Based on previous answers the answer is yes.


ok. So, ive read things now about abandoning tough dungeons...

What do you mean by a tough dungeon? How do we determine if its a tough dungeon.

I checked our experience after 1 dungeon.
The score is 42 to 17. That seems a tad high after the first dungeon. He got to use the curse on us 3 times. Our heroes values are 4,4,2,3.
We are using 2 chain mails, 2 magic robes. I think dodging is a great idea now in retrospect.





 
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Retired Hurt

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If the OL plays EG on level 1 he won't be able to spawn more than once. That's simply too many threat. Yes, even for the Sorcerer.
 
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Shawn Burk
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runescience wrote:
This might be asking the same question again in a different manner: But, since nothing penetrates my old skull ill ask it in a different way:

if the OL pulls the evil genius card in level one of the dungeon, it stays in play for level 2 and lvl 3? Based on previous answers the answer is yes.

It persists, yes. Part of the danger for heroes is to decide whether you should continue when he has all this extra stuff going on or not, and with cards like Evil Genius in play, leaving the dungeon is often a good call.

Quote:
ok. So, ive read things now about abandoning tough dungeons...

What do you mean by a tough dungeon? How do we determine if its a tough dungeon.

Look at the setup and listen to the effects of the dungeon card. Take a glance of the floor and ask yourself honestly how tough it might be. If you think a hero might be killed attempting it, make sure you can get something out of it like a gold pile, barrel, glyph or chest or the like. If you risk a death without feeling sure you can get something out of it, leave. If you look at the level and think you would get two or more deaths out of it don't even try it. Examples of this are seeing a dungeon floor with the Overlord's upgraded monster type with a strong loadout when you don't have much going for yourself. Do keep in mind though that often people will use a "runner" type of hero, one with good movement and fatigue and a low Conquest cost to run ahead and sacrifice themselves to get good loot at the second to lowest cost of conquest they can give a floor. If this is an option for safety, it can be a good idea depending on party makeup.


Quote:
I checked our experience after 1 dungeon.
The score is 42 to 17. That seems a tad high after the first dungeon. He got to use the curse on us 3 times. Our heroes values are 4,4,2,3.
We are using 2 chain mails, 2 magic robes. I think dodging is a great idea now in retrospect.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but that is a massacre. A well run floor for the heroes is a conquest loss of 0-3 (ideally if you have a 4 pointer, hopefully they weren't the one to die) but if two heroes die, you should be looking at the exit, and if three died you shouldn't have come here and must leave immediately. In the most broad and general sense one death is workable and in budget, two means you pack your bags and get out (unless you can make some excellent gains). And even better is advancing in the dungeon being ready to run for the hills if the seemingly easier floor makes a dark turn such as from a big spawn or something going wrong.
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Retired Hurt

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I'll mitigate this a bit.

Losing two heroes, for an average CT count of 6, isn't too many if you complete the level, something which will usually give you 5 CT, and more than that in quite a few cases. So, if you think you can go in and out for the loss of two lives, you may try it. If the level's rewards are greater (e.g. there are two glyphs), of if the penalty for not tackling it is high (like in level # 9) then you have one more incentive to go in.

What is costly is to lose 2+ lives without completing the level, and that's what you should be wary of.

A complete dungeon (3 levels) usually nets you ca. 20 CT. If you can exit it having lost no more than 18-20 CT (or a little more if there is some good reason to avoid being pulled back to Tamalir), you've done your job.

And about power cards, notice that it will usually be good strategy for the OL to play Evil Genius or Trapmaster near the end of the first level (he should be able to do it on round 4 or 3 respectively if he spawned only once, and one round earlier if he is the SK) to prompt abandonment.
 
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