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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Hard at Work rss

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Trevor Godley
Canada
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Posted this on CardgameDB, but will post here as well:

Hard at Work has got to be the worst runner card in the game by a fair margin. At a measly $1/click this takes 7 turns to pay off. If we boost our base efficiency to $1.5/click then it takes a whopping 16 turns to pay off! And it's extremely vulnerable to tags. And it reduces you to 3 usable clicks per turn with no flexibility. You severely handicap yourself the moment you put this onto the field. I can't think of a single situation where this card actually even remotely helps you to win a game. Hell, if a runner had an ability that was "at the start of your turn, lose a click and gain $2" it would be pretty bad, much less having to pay 2 clicks and $5 to set it up in the first place.

I have, however, thought of a use for this card. This card is so stupidly bad that I think the community should employ a new unwritten rule: if the runner plays this card within the first 3 turns of the game and still wins, he gets to slap his opponent across the face for every agenda point his opponent is short from 7. For online games, one slap can be substituted with one minute of merciless ridicule. This rule might give players SOME incentive to play this horrific excuse for a card.
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Asterisk CGY
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Do people use Liberated Accounts over Armitage?
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Kasper Lauest
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It's useless now, but theoretically they could release cards which would make it at least decent. Like a card that cheats out resources for free or something like that (although you'd probably still pick Liberated Accounts over it in that case).
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Ryan Angell
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i think there are 3 sources for start of turn no strings attached credits in the game right now.

hard at work, aesops and underworld contacts. aesops needs something you dont care about and underworld contacts needs 2 link so hard at work is probably the least conditional start of turn source of money.

there is one corp known card that does something bad at the start of the runner turn. city surveillance which the runner has to pay 1 at the start of his turn or take a tag.

if a card like city surveillance become a problem well huzzah anarch's have the counter. yes it probably will occupy space in your collection next to disrupter and force of nature but at least its there should the need arise.

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Trevor Godley
Canada
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I would argue that the condition for Hard at Work is the worst: you need to be ok with forking over $5 to set it up and also ok with losing your first action for every subsequent turn. Nope, not seeing it.

Also, if you are implying that Hard at Work gives you start of the turn credits with no strings attached then you are sadly mistaken; losing a click is a pretty massive string.
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Witold Jakubowski
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Hard at Work has one feature that makes it super awesome! You can combo it with Joshua B. and New Angeles City Hall to lose one click, gain 2c, get one click and pay 2 to avoid tag after your turn. It's best empty combo there will ever be and costs only 7c to set!
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Trevor Godley
Canada
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BlueSwan wrote:
It's useless now, but theoretically they could release cards which would make it at least decent. Like a card that cheats out resources for free or something like that (although you'd probably still pick Liberated Accounts over it in that case).


Yeah, there are a lot better options than this. You mentioned Liberated Accounts, but also Professional Contacts would be a pretty great target that lots of decks are running anyways. If you are looking for resource economy, there's also Daily Casts and Kati Jones. Kati Jones especially because both Hard at Work and Kati Jones activate once per turn, but Kati Jones is almost objectively better in that she's way cheaper, you can optionally use her at any time during the turn and the rate of pay from her is generally higher (it is as long as you tend to load her up for 3 or more turns before unloading).
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Do we really need another HaW thread? The one over in General is already at 6 pages...
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John Thornby
United Kingdom
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Would this care be playable if, hypothetically, the runner got a card that triggered something positive whenever they "lose [click]"?
 
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Oscar Iglesias
Spain
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I bet Anarchs will get sometime in the future something to pay for resources or reduce the effect of "lose a click" conditions on resources.
An identity ability or even another resource.
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Christopher Barnett
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beepers wrote:
I tried to make a case for this card over in the other thread. Well, "tried" isn't the right word. "Succeeded" is the word I'm looking for. People were not willing to accept objective truth, though.

I know it's not something wrong with the card, so it must be something wrong with the psychology of your average efficiency nazi. I think it has something to do with people legitimately believing their clicks are worth 2.5- if not 3 credits. Hard at Work is challenging that belief and thus the efficiency nazi's whole worldview.

It is not a problem of "efficiency" but of "opportunity" as far as I see it.

The frankly excellent article of zoning in netrunner (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1053419/zoning-in-netrunner) mentions that often corps score agendas when the runner has crippled themselves setting up their long term economy.

An install cost of 5 will do this in the early game, meaning the corp can get a turn of agendas in. However, compared to magnum opus and professional contacts, which can if dedicated, pay themselves back in a turn or 2, Hard at Work takes far longer, leaving that window open longer.

Of course this is mitigated if you leave it to the later game, when the runner has more money, but you really don't want to install the card late game, since by then the payoff is probably not going to happen.

This means that I don't want to install it early game, and I don't want to install it lategame. There probably are situations (if I am being generous) where it might be the better economy card, but the window for that is so narrow I can't see where I can find the deck slot for it. I can't even tutor for it with hostage to skimp on copies of it.
 
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Adam Perry
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the only way hard at work can be good is if anarchs get some sort of card that trashes resources for a benefit. like, an anarch aesops that trashes a resource for 5 credits-level good, or a card that says if you start your turn with 2 clicks, gain some crazy benefit.

instead of hard at work, run armitage.
 
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Daniel D
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Consider that nine times out of ten you're going to want Armitage Codebusting since it gives higher returns for about 11 10 turns.

Install turn:
Armitage: -1
HaW: -5

Six turns after install turn (Armitage user starts clicking for credits):
Armitage: +11
HaW: +7

Eleven turns after install turn:
Armitage: +16
HaW: +17

This is of course assuming you don't draw another Armitage and you just click for credits after emptying it. It is also ignoring the benefit of Armitage allowing you to speed up your credit gains if you suddenly find yourself needing to get into a server or trash something that turn.

So considering the lower initial investment, flexibility, and the fact that extra copies of Armitage aren't functionally dead cards, I'll stick to that one. If that makes me an "efficiency nazi" then so be it.
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Drake Villareal
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Glad to see someone carry on my hatred of this horrible card.

HaW is a perfect acronym for this card, because I'll be saying it loudly everytime this card is played "HAW!".
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Gin Teki
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OddCrow19 wrote:
Glad to see someone carry on my hatred of this horrible card.

HaW is a perfect acronym for this card, because I'll be saying it loudly everytime this card is played "HAW!".

I don't even get why anyone wants this card to be good.
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Corwin David
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Searlichek wrote:
OddCrow19 wrote:
Glad to see someone carry on my hatred of this horrible card.

HaW is a perfect acronym for this card, because I'll be saying it loudly everytime this card is played "HAW!".

I don't even get why anyone wants this card to be good.


I don't even get why it's a discussion. This card is bad, the developers should feel bad.
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Pavlos Pavlopoulos
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beepers wrote:
I tried to make a case for this card over in the other thread. Well, "tried" isn't the right word. "Succeeded" is the word I'm looking for. People were not willing to accept objective truth, though.

I know it's not something wrong with the card, so it must be something wrong with the psychology of your average efficiency nazi. I think it has something to do with people legitimately believing their clicks are worth 2.5- if not 3 credits. Hard at Work is challenging that belief and thus the efficiency nazi's whole worldview.


Well, declaring that you won an argument sure helps win more arguments.
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Daniel D
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I mean, technically, the argument could be made that once your average games start lasting 31 turns then your HaW will net you just barely more money than 3 Armitage. Then again that argument ignores the inflexibility of HaW, the fact that you have two functionally dead cards in your stack, the probable completely nonviable nature of such a deck in a tournament setting, and the major tempo hit of installing a 5 cost card. Seriously that card better be good if I'm giving it that kind of investment, especially on turn 1.
 
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Doug Law
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HaW is bad now, but may not always be bad. It could be a forward looking card.

All the same, I hope I corp against people playing HaW today. I hope I corp against people playing it out of faction. In multiples.
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Asterisk CGY
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Sooooooooo....

What if it was 3 creds instead of 2?
 
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Daniel D
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I don't think anyone is saying it'll be a coaster forever, just that it's definitely one now.

In the hypothetical future world where the corp has a card that says "For each click the runner takes past their third, [punishment]" (incidentally this would be the hate card to balance The Collective, but that's irrelevant now), then this may see play depending on how widespread such a punishment card gets.
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Kasper Lauest
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AsteriskCGY wrote:
Sooooooooo....

What if it was 3 creds instead of 2?

Without doing the math, that would likely move it from useless to overpowered in one swoop.

A better way of improving this card would be to lower the install cost. Maybe a cost of 3 would make it playable?
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Alex Rockwell
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Lynnwood
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Do we really need another HaW thread? The one over in General is already at 6 pages...


It is necessary, because of the Data Hound Hypothesis:
http://forum.stimhack.com/t/the-data-hound-hypothesis/342
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Doug Law
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If you got 3 credits instead of 2 it would be pretty good. It would be around Wyldside level. It still would have zero flexibility (which is a very desirable thing to have), but would provide an effect that is not available anywhere else.

If it cost 3 to install, providing 2 credits it would not be unplayable, imo, but would still not be great. If it cost 2 to install I think it would compete with some other economy options for many Anarchs.

Seriously, most of us have probably played pretty extensively with Wyldside. How many times have you thought to yourself, "Man, I wish I had that fourth click this turn." A lot of times 2 cards are worth having that feeling. 2 credits, on the other hand? It better AT LEAST provide an Aesop's return to be worth it.

That's just my feeling, though. I may have been wrong once before. I can't remember. You'd have to ask my wife, she would remember.
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Asterisk CGY
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BlueSwan wrote:
AsteriskCGY wrote:
Sooooooooo....

What if it was 3 creds instead of 2?

Without doing the math, that would likely move it from useless to overpowered in one swoop.

A better way of improving this card would be to lower the install cost. Maybe a cost of 3 would make it playable?


I think Anarch's play with the not very cost effective resources at the moment, compared to the utility of shaper or gamble that is criminal. I've only seen a single Liberated accounts in a play.

Yea sounds like a lower install cost would be a better balancing factor, but probably is against type.
 
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