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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: Request for 'Too Easy' Session Reports rss

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D P
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I've seen a considerable amount of people stating or complaining that the game is too easy, and so far, I have yet to find this the case in my own group.

So far, everyone that says the game is too easy explains why they personally found it too easy in their own words, but there's little idea if they're doing things right or wrong in their playing, or what strategies they're using that benefit them that other people who aren't finding it easy may be lacking, etc.

So this is a request for all the people out there that find this game too easy.

I'd appreciate it greatly if you'd be so kind as to play an entire 3-4 hero campaign up to the current adventure (as of this original posting, that'd be the Skinsaw Murder adventure). Also keep in mind to read the FAQ for any rule changes that you may not be aware of.

In playing that campaign, I'd like the following:
3-4 heroes
Recommended starting decks for each hero if possible
And finally, play by play session notes.

What happened on hero 1's turn, hero 2's turn, etc etc etc.

Not only would this benefit myself in trying to figure out where we're going wrong in our group, but it'd also benefit the community by having more session posts and giving people that want to learn about the game something to look into aside from the somewhat professional gameplay videos posted everywhere.
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Fromper Fromper
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Let me get this straight. You want somebody to play 13 scenarios with 3-4 characters, taking notes of every single detail along the way, thus turning 13ish hours of fun playing time into 5x that long of hard note taking?

I can see asking someone to do this for a single scenario. Because of the note taking and posting, this would still take several hours longer than a normal session, but I can see some of the more obsessive players around here maybe doing it. I'd consider doing it some time if I had more free time, but the next couple of weeks are unlikely.

But an entire campaign? Forget it.

Here's a thought: Why don't you do that for a scenario, if you don't think the game is easy, and those who think the game is easy can critique your play to point out what you could have done better, or what rules you were playing wrong, in your game?

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D P
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Fromper wrote:
Let me get this straight. You want somebody to play 13 scenarios with 3-4 characters, taking notes of every single detail along the way, thus turning 13ish hours of fun playing time into 5x that long of hard note taking?

I can see asking someone to do this for a single scenario. Because of the note taking and posting, this would still take several hours longer than a normal session, but I can see some of the more obsessive players around here maybe doing it. I'd consider doing it some time if I had more free time, but the next couple of weeks are unlikely.

But an entire campaign? Forget it.

Here's a thought: Why don't you do that for a scenario, if you don't think the game is easy, and those who think the game is easy can critique your play to point out what you could have done better, or what rules you were playing wrong, in your game?

I did consider that (doing my own session reports). However we play very few and far between, and haven't been able to play in close to a month now, and as such I've no sessions in the near future to ponder doing this for. Also, there's plenty of post out there saying 'we failed because ___' however, there's very few saying 'we succeeded because ___' aside from posts pointing out a single circumstance instead of an overview of what all went on their entire campaign.

I was also under the assumption that those that think the game is too easy would be more inclined to play through it again since it's so easy for them to do so, as opposed to someone having difficulty that doesn't really have enough time to think about what they want their character(s) to do and take notes on what's going on for fear of losing yet again.
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Matt Asher
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While I don't consider the game "too easy" I do consistently win scenarios - with probably an average of 5 Blessings left. This is in many different-sized and skilled parties from 1-6. I find 6 is pretty tough, though, even 5 - especially playing solo. 1 or 2 can be be "too easy" with some "the Villain always ends up on top" luck, and good die rolls, etc. Most of the time my wife & I playing Harsk/Seoni have close to 0 cards in our draw piles when we hit the final villain attack.

I wrote a 4-character Perils session here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1069422/perils-of-the-lost-c...

The detailed game report is a PDF hosted on my personal website, but I can also email it or something if you like.

Granted, it is with 2 custom characters, but having played them for a few scenarios (esp. the Perils) I don't feel they were over powered in any way...just the same "feel" that many of the other characters have - Some good things, some bad things. and one of them even took 4 damage on his first turn!

EDIT: typos and fixed the URL link...
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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I suggest that you read the comments in

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1070124/a-game-with-litt...

Some people play the game in very different ways. The aggressive group that isn't improving their decks much may find problems with later scenarios, though.
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Joseph Cochran
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firedale2002 wrote:
I was also under the assumption that those that think the game is too easy would be more inclined to play through it again since it's so easy for them to do so, as opposed to someone having difficulty that doesn't really have enough time to think about what they want their character(s) to do and take notes on what's going on for fear of losing yet again.


"Easy" doesn't equal "quick" or "convenient", especially in a game with as much prep time per scenario as this one has: shuffling and sorting the cards takes a fair amount of time. Asking for a full run? That's someone devoting a full person-day or more to it.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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mlvanbie wrote:
I suggest that you read the comments in

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1070124/a-game-with-litt...

Some people play the game in very different ways. The aggressive group that isn't improving their decks much may find problems with later scenarios, though.


Wich isn't really a trouble as that will slow them down and provide them with the occasion to better then deck WHEN THEY NEED IT.

That is the trouble with the people that concentrate on acquiring cards. They forgot that cards life time is quite short and better cards show up every 5 scenario so by spending time to acquire cards they actually lose occasion to get really better one earlier.

Currently with no losing a single scenario we still manage to got enough cards to be up to the par for each AP. Frankly I dont see the point in grinding cards.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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firedale2002 wrote:
I've seen a considerable amount of people stating or complaining that the game is too easy, and so far, I have yet to find this the case in my own group.

So far, everyone that says the game is too easy explains why they personally found it too easy in their own words, but there's little idea if they're doing things right or wrong in their playing, or what strategies they're using that benefit them that other people who aren't finding it easy may be lacking, etc.

So this is a request for all the people out there that find this game too easy.

I'd appreciate it greatly if you'd be so kind as to play an entire 3-4 hero campaign up to the current adventure (as of this original posting, that'd be the Skinsaw Murder adventure). Also keep in mind to read the FAQ for any rule changes that you may not be aware of.

In playing that campaign, I'd like the following:
3-4 heroes
Recommended starting decks for each hero if possible
And finally, play by play session notes.

What happened on hero 1's turn, hero 2's turn, etc etc etc.

Not only would this benefit myself in trying to figure out where we're going wrong in our group, but it'd also benefit the community by having more session posts and giving people that want to learn about the game something to look into aside from the somewhat professional gameplay videos posted everywhere.


Ok, here is my counter-proposal :

YOU do the turn by turn, player by player report of the whole campaign and I point out what your group is doing wrong. Probably wont take a whole campaign by the way.

You could check my report of the first scenario by the way, even with a minor error it still was a cakewalk, especially with only 3 heroes:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/13986059#13986059
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Ray Shipp
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Hi ray here from Oz,

Why don't you play solo with 2-3 characters and do your own reports. This could be beneficial to your group when you finally meet. Solo play for this game is just as fun in my experience.

Cheers.
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Dave Riley
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My wife and I were thinking about doing video playthroughs, at least one or two. We're some of the people who find the game very easy. We only play with two characters, but we deal out the location decks for four to add a bit more pressure.
 
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Matt Asher
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Fastkarate wrote:
...but we deal out the location decks for four to add a bit more pressure.

wow that's intense!

Did you start that at Perils or just somewhere along the way?
 
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D P
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IKerensky wrote:
[...]
You could check my report of the first scenario by the way, even with a minor error it still was a cakewalk, especially with only 3 heroes:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/13986059#13986059
Oh, thank you muchly! I hadn't seen that one. Was quite helpful and a good flow of what was going on, even with the errors that you caught later.

I was under the assumption that I'd need a lot of scenario plays to figure out strategy that a group might use to make the game too easy, thus why I asked for an entire campaign. That being said, our group has yet to pass the first scenario. We have a split group, two different sets of people, so we're currently doing two ongoing campaigns, and both groups have yet to beat the first scenario.

One group has lost to the timer deck three times and had one character killed. The other group has lost to the timer deck twice but no character deaths.

We attempted different tactics each time for each different group, from systematically exploring a single location with everyone to hurry and try to close it to spreading out in case the villain showed up for temp closes.

Based on a few of the playthroughs I've seen in session reports, we're just extremely unlucky with the villain being either very far down in the deck or plagued with bad rolls.

On the playthrough linked above, it seems the person had extremely good luck with the villain placement, and so was able to beat the scenario with more than 10 blessings left.

I'd assume if a group consistently has that kind of good luck, the game would appear too easy.

So it seems it's mostly all up to luck as far as being able to beat a scenario consistently. Tactics help in getting there, but finding things helps greatly.
 
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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You shouldn't stack everyone to the same place to close it earlier. It doesn't work that way.

Each location have 10% of chance of having the vilain or henchman in the first location, 30% to be in the first 3 cards. By splitting the group you actually increase your odds of an earlier closing of the location.

Also by stacking character you lose control of whom is going to roll to close the location, wich mean you increase the odds of having to plow to the bottom of the deck.

Stacking also increase the fleeing location of the Vilain, wich increase the number of cards by location with the addition of extra blessing.

The game I posted was a bit of an oddity, but not that much, and it was very very short, even by my standard. A more common occurrence would have been 5-10 turn longuer but not more difficult.

With 5 location, you have about 50% chances of finding a Vilain/henchman in first position, about 100% it will be in the top 3 cards of one of the location. By splitting and exploring 2-3 times we usually insure we have one location closed after one turn of the table.
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Dave Riley
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theashers wrote:
wow that's intense!

Did you start that at Perils or just somewhere along the way?
We we've been dealing out decks for 3 players (5?) since Black Fangs, I think. We kicked it up to 4 players around the end of Burnt Offerings. This is with Merisiel and Kyra, who started off pretty strong for us and were basically kitted out to the max before the end of BO. We started a new play with Lem and Seoni and dealt 5 decks from the start, but I think we went up to 6 at Black Fang's again.

Even with new characters it wasn't that tough, but that may be because Seoni's fireballs and Lem's Cure-swapping are a match made in heaven. We both play super-aggressive, and probably average at least 3 explores a turn, and Seoni's great for that because half her deck is good for explores (plus, I got a Charm Person spell in our first game that shows up in my initial hand more often than not), and I just grab crap boons for fireballs to keep combat ready. Ordinarily I agree with Nathaniel, our Merisiel and Kyra were never at the same location (playing Merisiel, that suited me just fine), but Lem and Kyra synergize very well, and have basically identical stats, so they'd be rolling the same dice for closes anyway. We don't spread as Lemoni until we're trying to corner the villain. I think the closest we've come to losing a game with them is about 3 blessings left (on Local Heroes, where we got greedy and didn't insta-close a few locations), and that's without the Holy Candle, which Merisiel covetously guards.
 
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M Edwards
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I've just submitted a 4 player session report against Black Fang with every horrible detail written out. Its not a lot of fun writing everything up, so I won't be doing any other scenarios like that.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1071961/four-player-sess...
 
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Joshua Birk
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I also submitted a session summary for Angel in the Tower, though I bungle the Clock Tower rules.
 
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Richard Poole
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IKerensky wrote:
stuff


Your probability is way off. First, you'll get a much more reliable early location closure by stacking up. Each card you burn in the same location that isn't the villain makes each additional draw more likely to give you a shot at closing the location. Ergo, you close locations faster by grouping up.

Secondly, with 5 characters at 5 locations, your chances of finding a villain or henchman on the top of one of those locations is actually only ~41%, or 40% if you like rounding to the nearest 10. Further, your chances of there being one henchman or villain in the first 3 cards of at least one of five decks is actually only ~83%, which while pretty good, is a far cry from "about 100%". To put things into perspective, over the 33 scenarios of Rise of the Runelords, your statistical near-certainty would actually fail 5 or 6 times on average.

On the other hand, if you grouped up all the characters, the chances of them finding the villain or henchman after 3 successful explores each is 100%, because that's 15 explores on a 10 card deck.

The reasons to spread out are:
-better knowledge of where the villain runs to, via temporary closing
-more reliable location closure
-avoiding location-wide damage

Firedale: Luck is the game I found the villain with Augury on turn 3, and we spent 20+ of the remaining 26 turns stuffing our pockets. Finishing with 10 turns left is merely better than average.

If you still have trouble, might I suggest posting your characters and deck lists? The game is at least as much about what cards you have as when you use them.
 
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Andrew Pillow
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You forgot the other reason to spread out. Being able to temporary close a location means that if you lose to the Villian, you still have more time as you have to take blessings from the blessing deck. Winning against a villian means those cards come from the box. Getting blessing cards arent too much of a problem for my party (50-100% chance of getting one depending on the character), which means that there is a less than 50% chance extra cardss will slow me down (as I can immediately discard them to keep going).

The greatest card in my opinion is Holy Candle. It gives you an extra 1-6 turns and means you can spend a little more time searching for great items than you usually would. There are spells which also help with this (eg Consecration from the Skinsaw murders), but they are one use spells whereas Holy Candle can be used every game (only once however).
 
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Fromper Fromper
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firedale2002 wrote:

I was under the assumption that I'd need a lot of scenario plays to figure out strategy that a group might use to make the game too easy, thus why I asked for an entire campaign. That being said, our group has yet to pass the first scenario. We have a split group, two different sets of people, so we're currently doing two ongoing campaigns, and both groups have yet to beat the first scenario.

One group has lost to the timer deck three times and had one character killed. The other group has lost to the timer deck twice but no character deaths.

We attempted different tactics each time for each different group, from systematically exploring a single location with everyone to hurry and try to close it to spreading out in case the villain showed up for temp closes.

Based on a few of the playthroughs I've seen in session reports, we're just extremely unlucky with the villain being either very far down in the deck or plagued with bad rolls.

On the playthrough linked above, it seems the person had extremely good luck with the villain placement, and so was able to beat the scenario with more than 10 blessings left.

I'd assume if a group consistently has that kind of good luck, the game would appear too easy.

So it seems it's mostly all up to luck as far as being able to beat a scenario consistently. Tactics help in getting there, but finding things helps greatly.


It can't just be luck that's the difference between groups that lose every time and groups that win every time. Statistically speaking, it should average out. If you're losing every time, you're doing something wrong, either with the rules or the strategy.

I really do think it would be most useful for you to create and post your own session report, even if you just play a solo game with 2 characters. That way, the rest of us can point out what you're doing wrong.

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Calthaer the Bard
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I just posted a very detailed session report of a 29-turn run-through of AD2, Scenario 1: "The Undead Uprising." I am sure the rules-lawyers / auditors will spot another error; I already found one and highlighted it in red. Most of us likely make at least one mistake, especially when playing multiple characters.

I believe that the game is neither too hard nor too easy, but just right. I do believe that every scenario is able to be completed with any character combination, and diversified groups (e.g., a group that isn't all spellcasters, all fighters, all support characters, etc.) should be able to win scenarios over 90% of the time, with the extra 10% being due to bad luck. The session report highlights a run that has a mix of "lucky" rolls and "unlucky" rolls, quite a few difficult challenges where characters ill-suited to a challenge had to face it - and, at least once, received a lot of damage (5 cards). That's why the healer is standing by with 3 (increases to 4 during scenario) Cure spells.

Wish I had thought to record my thoughts / strategies while going through it. The thing those reports don't show is the number of cards in one's hand or the draw deck that influence decisions...but if you "play back" the recording, you can see more clearly the layout of everything that leads to the decision-making process. E.g., there was one point where I sent Seoni to explore a location that requires a Dexterity check to close, but I knew she had a Blessing of Calistria in-hand, and could add a bunch of dice to the closing check. She actually ends up doing this, which makes this a better strategic move than it might otherwise have been.
 
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M Edwards
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Calthaer wrote:
I just posted a very detailed session report of a 29-turn run-through of AD2, Scenario 1: "The Undead Uprising." I am sure the rules-lawyers / auditors will spot another error; I already found one and highlighted it in red. Most of us likely make at least one mistake, especially when playing multiple characters.

OK, I'll play auditor. On turn 19 Merisiel should have checked the Habe's Sanitorium effect before moving.

I agree it is easy to make at least one mistake in a game.
 
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Calthaer the Bard
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I wasn't asking for that so much as I was noting that it was inevitable that it would happen. I admit, I will never, ever understand what makes people like you take such joy in finding those sorts of details.
 
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D D
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I actually find it amusing when forum members gripe on how easy a game is and chastise others for mentioning any difficulties. Then find out they totally missed some important rules or flat out just play wrong.

I seen it time and time again on several game forums over the years.
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M Edwards
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Calthaer wrote:
I wasn't asking for that so much as I was noting that it was inevitable that it would happen. I admit, I will never, ever understand what makes people like you take such joy in finding those sorts of details.

Actually I normally wouldn't comment on that kind of mistake at all, since it was totally irrelevant to the result, and not an indication of any misunderstanding of the rules. I only posted it because you'd kind of asked for it. It was supposed to be funny. Sorry it wasn't.
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Calthaer the Bard
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Oh, it is funny...just not "ha-ha" funny. More of a "roll my eyes" kind of thing, a wry smile at the people who find exactitude a source of private satisfaction.
 
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