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Subject: Why Gambit and Emma Frost? rss

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Kristopher
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I realize trying to narrow down the Marvel Universe into main movers and shakers is nigh on impossible, and ANY definitive "list" is going to be lacking in some places.

But any idea why Emma Frost and Gambit were chosen to represent the X-Men, versus Jean Grey and Prof. X? I know they are made up in the Dark City expansion, but I would have thought them more familiar than the two aforementioned ones.

Anyone know (besides
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Well they were both in that wolverine movie. Gambit was big in the 90s comics and in that animated Saturday morning cartoon. Also ships with rogue well.

Emma Frost because she is a lingerie model in her spare time, and Ill take that over Xavier's astral gladiator form any day.
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David Bohlander
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I would guess the Shader is correct about why Gambit is included in the game.
As for Emma, she has essentially taken Jean Grey's place on the X-Men now that Jean is dead (again), and it's a role she's had for at least a decade. (I duck in and out of following X-Men comics, so I don't recall exactly when Jean died most recently.
I'm more sad that they've printed a dozen X-Men (plus a bunch of X-Force cards) but we still don't have Kitty Pryde or Beast.
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Gary Tanner
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Simple popularity may be an issue. When Gambit came out, the comics world went nuts over him. He's stayed a favorite character for years (even though I thought the onscreen portrayal of him sucked), and is one of the most liked X-men, from what I've seen. I know when I was selling comics, anything with him in it was something to order extra of. Some of the other X-men have been kind of bland and don't stand out as much.
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Mike Beiter
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Gambit I had no problem with. I first got into the X-men during his presence. So to me he is as staple as Cyclops or Wolverine.

Emma frost on the other hand... That bugged me. I will always see her as the White Queen. She is always a villain in my eyes.
I read the comics and I get her switching sides, but she is still way more iconic as a villain.
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I like that comics aren't exactly as they were when I started reading them.
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Brook Gentlestream
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
Emma frost on the other hand... That bugged me. I will always see her as the White Queen. She is always a villain in my eyes.


You and me both. But the basic facts are that she's a hero now in modern comics, and has probably been a good guy longer than she ever was a bad guy.

She also got an "upgrade" in popularity when she became a hero. When she was a bad guy, she wasn't really well known compared to other popular bad guys. Now that she's a member of the X-men, and a high-ranking prominant member at that, she has a lot more "screen time" and is every episode. So when people think Emma, they think "hero". And since she trained a lot of other mutant characters, both in her own school and as a member of the X-men, she's also more connected to all the other groups out there than Jean Grey ever was.

But she'll always be The White Queen to me.
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Kristopher
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oriellore wrote:

I'm more sad that they've printed a dozen X-Men (plus a bunch of X-Force cards) but we still don't have Kitty Pryde or Beast.


I noticed that when looking at the Dark City expansion. Sad.
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Kristopher
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You guys are probably right. At least about Gambit anyway.

I would have just enjoyed a more Classic feel to the choices over whats popular now. Would give a more timeless feel to the game. But then, I'm more old school any.

Well... just more "old."
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Lhowser wrote:
You guys are probably right. At least about Gambit anyway.

I would have just enjoyed a more Classic feel to the choices over whats popular now. Would give a more timeless feel to the game. But then, I'm more old school any.

Well... just more "old."

I'm sure "veteran" readers were saying the same thing during that "Classic" period.

I'm sounding like more of a jerk than I mean to be, but really, "classic" only means "like when I was a kid," which of course varies from generation to generation. I can only imagine what long time fans thought of Cap's Kooky Quartet during that era. If the internet had existed, it would have exploded! Now those characters are considered traditional Avengers.

EDIT: I guess it bugs me a little that for some reason we think that a game published in 2013 shouldn't feel like it was published in 2013. Kind of like how it's only "cool" to like old comics. You're not supposed to enjoy what's current. :/
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Kristopher
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DiggetyDog46 wrote:

I'm sounding like more of a jerk than I mean to be, but really, "classic" only means "like when I was a kid," which of course varies from generation to generation. I can only imagine what long time fans thought of Cap's Kooky Quartet during that era. If the internet had existed, it would have exploded! Now those characters are considered traditional Avengers.



Well, when I say "Classic" I think "Silver Age, original X-Men, Yellow suits and all." I actually didn't start reading/collecting until I was in my twenties (1990s) but I know what you mean.

I certainly don't think Bucky oughta have been included. (And will take Carol Danver's Ms Marvel over Classic Captain Marvel ANYDAY.)


Quote:

EDIT: I guess it bugs me a little that for some reason we think that a game published in 2013 shouldn't feel like it was published in 2013. Kind of like how it's only "cool" to like old comics. You're not supposed to enjoy what's current. :/



It's not a matter of not liking whats current. To me, it's more a matter of not being "dated" to a certain time in which it was produced. I mean, watch any 80s movie with a synthesizer and drum machine soundtrack and it sticks out like a sore thumb, versus movies that either use period music or symphony.

I don't think anyone ever plays Monopoly and says "Wow, this game is soooo 1935!"


 
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Lhowser wrote:
I don't think anyone ever plays Monopoly and says "Wow, this game is soooo 1935!"


You had me at "I don't think anyone ever plays Monopoly"

Seriously though, Brenzor has said that a lot of the characters and images were pulled from the 90s comics era. I actually wish it were more modern, personally. I echo the sentiment above in that I want to play a game that has content from current continuity.
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In the end, I think including Emma and excluding Xavier in the base game was just a nod to acknowledge current comic book readers. Really, the base game should be made to please as many people as possible. If anything, it's the modern comic readers that should feel put off by the product as almost none of the x-men depicted in the game are currently x-men anymore in modern comics.

In the base game, there is no mention of Hope, as a character, nor does in include Magneto, Magik, Domino, Marvel Girl, Mercury, Pixie, Jubilee, or Warpath, who are all X-men or recently were. Nor does it use team icons to represent the divide between the two schools of X-men.

Instead, it mostly focuses on "classic" X-men, with a couple of minor nods to the modern comics here and there.

I'm really excited about this idea of small "themed expansions" that focus on a few heroes. It gives them extraordinary freedom. Why CAN'T they release a 1980's FIVE CLASSIC X-MEN expansion now if they really wanted to?

As far as the base game goes, I think it was a good choice to focus on the 90's style x-men, which I think was the height of their popularity and still the focus of all the movies, while still acknowledging the modern comic book fanbase and giving them characters and schemes they are familiar with, too.

That being said, I still want a "White Queen" mastermind and a "Hellions" villain set.


(Side note: I recently got excited over the X-men vs Avengers set coming for Heroclix. Whichever I got, I figured, I'd be getting all my favorite characters! I looked at the X-men set, however, and was shocked. This is *not* the X-men team I remember: Cyclops, Colossus, Magneto, Emma Frost, and Magik! It got me visiting my local comic store so I can see what the hell happened to my favorite comics. Spoiler alert: The changes were much more profound than I had ever imagined.)

P.S. While were on the subject, Sentinels should not be henchmen!
 
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Praxus wrote:
Lhowser wrote:
I don't think anyone ever plays Monopoly and says "Wow, this game is soooo 1935!"


You had me at "I don't think anyone ever plays Monopoly"

Seriously though, Brenzor has said that a lot of the characters and images were pulled from the 90s comics era. I actually wish it were more modern, personally. I echo the sentiment above in that I want to play a game that has content from current continuity.

Well, I like it all, I just think current stuff is underrepresented (the X-Force team notwithstanding). Brenner's the brand manager and he'll pick the characters he likes, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just make slightly different decisions.

Although if anything, to me, including Jean and Xavier kind of makes the game feel "dated." Jean's been dead for ages, and the adult version will likely never be back. Xavier just shuffled off recently, but he was largely irrelevant for a good long time before that.

EDIT: I'm also glad we can discuss this somewhat civilly, without calling each other's fandom into question.
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Mike Beiter
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Well said.

In the end it is still an awesome game, and they have over 50 years of comics and story lines and alternate universes and what ifs to choose from, so I am sure we will get a bit of everything.
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DiggetyDog46 wrote:


EDIT: I'm also glad we can discuss this somewhat civilly, without calling each other's fandom into question.


I would never discuss anything BUT civilly. I spend most my time here on BGG because I'm stick of the idiots on fac--- that OTHER social networking site! I LOVE everyone's postings here.

(I'm not really even an X-man FAN. With starting collecting in 1991, and the popularity of Rob Liefeld, there was a new X-men team comic seemingly every other week: X-Force, New Mutants, X-Factor, X-Mutants, X-Factor Force, New X Mutants, Teen X Mutant Factor Forces.... I couldn't keep up with them.)

I'm more upset I have to buy an expansion to get the Fantastic Four!
 
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DiggetyDog46 wrote:

Although if anything, to me, including Jean and Xavier kind of makes the game feel "dated." Jean's been dead for ages, and the adult version will likely never be back. Xavier just shuffled off recently, but he was largely irrelevant for a good long time before that.


I guess I've never really even thought of that. I stopped collecting mid90s with that dang Clone Saga in the Spider-Man titles, so I admit my knowledge of current Marvel universe is horribly rusty. It never occurred to me that a classic character would appear dated to someone else.

(To my credit, I DID buy that HUGE 70th Anniversary Marvel Encyclopedia book that was out a few years ago and was SHOCKED at the changes!)
 
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Lhowser wrote:
I stopped collecting mid90s with that dang Clone Saga in the Spider-Man titles, so I admit my knowledge of current Marvel universe is horribly rusty.


I stopped when McFarlane started doing Spidey, still can't stomach his art, so for example the Spider-Man expansion wishlist thread, 75% of the names thrown out there make me go , who's that.
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Lhowser wrote:
I realize trying to narrow down the Marvel Universe into main movers and shakers is nigh on impossible, and ANY definitive "list" is going to be lacking in some places.

But any idea why Emma Frost and Gambit were chosen to represent the X-Men, versus Jean Grey and Prof. X? I know they are made up in the Dark City expansion, but I would have thought them more familiar than the two aforementioned ones.


I have never read an X-Men comic in my life but I am familiar with Gambit from the SNES video game and he was my favorite. Emma Frost was new to me until the X-Men movie franchise reboot (forget the name) but I like her abilities.
 
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Lhowser wrote:
But any idea why Emma Frost and Gambit were chosen to represent the X-Men, versus Jean Grey and Prof. X?


So they would have something for the inevitable X-Men expansion.
 
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Ranerdar wrote:
Lhowser wrote:
But any idea why Emma Frost and Gambit were chosen to represent the X-Men, versus Jean Grey and Prof. X?


So they would have something for the inevitable X-Men expansion.

That was actually what I was wondering. Did they go into production of the game with the idea of leaving certain characters out so as to milk us make expansions for the game? Hence the lack of the FF? Kind of like the half video games you buy anymore so they can just give you the rest in DLC?

 
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I'm sure they did. I doubt you publish a deck building game without plans to publish expansions unless sales are truly dreadful.
I wouldn't have cut any X-Men or Avengers from the set, so there aren't very many cards you could cut (no Spider-Man would also be weird). That means you'd have to add more cards to the core set if you're not doing planning on expansions to start with. More cards means a higher price point, and the price point is high enough that I didn't really consider buying the game until after I had played it. A $75+ MSRP would put a real damper on sales.
Plus, publishing a couple of expansions a year consistently creates interest in the game over time and lets the designers build complexity over time. New keywords open up more design space, and introducing the cards over time means that your players aren't going to be overwhelmed by the volume.
Plus, this way they'll eventually get to all of your favorite heroes. The X-Men are my favorite Marvel team, Legendary has more X-Men than anything, but I still really want more X-Men. (A Magneto hero card would be pretty fun.)
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Lhowser wrote:
I realize trying to narrow down the Marvel Universe into main movers and shakers is nigh on impossible, and ANY definitive "list" is going to be lacking in some places.

But any idea why Emma Frost and Gambit were chosen to represent the X-Men, versus Jean Grey and Prof. X? I know they are made up in the Dark City expansion, but I would have thought them more familiar than the two aforementioned ones.

Anyone know (besides
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Jean grey has been replaced by Emma in the comics. And Gambit is one of their most popular characters.
 
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Phaseshifter wrote:
And Gambit is one of their most popular characters.

Not so much anymore. He's fallen pretty far since the '90s. His latest solo series just ended at 17 issues, which were published over the course of about a year.
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Is Gambit even on a team anymore? He kind of fell off the map.
 
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