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Subject: Seems very expensive. rss

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James Cartwright
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Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.
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Jason Cann
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I suppose the answer lies with how you evaluate whether a game is worth it or not to add to your collection. I realize that may sound like a cop-out but it seems like many people considered it a good investment. You can take that for what it's worth...laugh
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Jonathan
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I'm trying to think of a boardgame - outside of Antiquity and Road & Boats - which I own that cost more. Even War of the Ring (Second Edition) and Runewars were cheaper.

When you think of it like that, this price seems CRAZY.
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Son Do
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Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


I would highly recommend that you try before you buy if possible
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Brent Lloyd
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Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


I have the game and have played it a couple of time. With all the rules issues I would echo the person above who suggested trying before buying.

The game has some interesting aspects to be sure, but there are some real oddities as well. I think the game needed more playtesting to iron out some of the bugs.

Peace
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Stephen McHale
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Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


Yes.
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Thomas
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Thunder wrote:
Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


I have the game and have played it a couple of time. With all the rules issues I would echo the person above who suggested trying before buying.

The game has some interesting aspects to be sure, but there are some real oddities as well. I think the game needed more playtesting to iron out some of the bugs.

Peace


All that aside do you think it is a good game once you get a hang of the rules? Do they at least make thematic sense so that you can perhaps house rule somethings?
 
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David Ausloos
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Thunder wrote:
Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


I have the game and have played it a couple of time. With all the rules issues I would echo the person above who suggested trying before buying.

The game has some interesting aspects to be sure, but there are some real oddities as well. I think the game needed more playtesting to iron out some of the bugs.

Peace


I'm definitly interested to hear what you consider "bugs" in the system.
Believe me, the game has been playtested alot.
It is not the easiest game to win, and I feel alot of people feel it is "unbalanced" because they expected a 50/50 win ratio.
This is not that kind of game, certainly not in the first 4 plays.
The design aim was hardcore survival horror, with alot of surprises thrown at you from all direction, forcing players to develop adaptive strategies and tactics. You need to develop a very flexible way of playing, adapting to the ever-changing house.
From my experience, once players begin to see the optimalization possibilities of actions spent within a group, they are upping their chances for survival with a good chunk. And when they finally win...it will feel extremely satisfying.

Furthermore, I have seen it in several shops around Europe far cheaper.


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Tyrone ..................
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I also say yes, it's totally worth it.
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Tyrone ..................
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
All that aside do you think it is a good game once you get a hang of the rules? Do they at least make thematic sense so that you can perhaps house rule somethings?


Yes, and actually once you think about how something would occur "for real" then it makes total sense.

Now that the idea behind the multi-tracker for the normal portion of the game and final showdown have been ironed out it's a much cleaner system.
 
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Silver Bowen
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I thought the game seemed very expensive when it was on KS. I'd be surprised if the MSRP isn't more than I'm willing to pay also.
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Michael Burke
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I haven't played the game so can't comment on it but it's certainly on my wishlist so not aimed at the game direct but....

I think it's way overpriced like a lot of games especially in the UK. Queen games are overpriced. Game prices seem to be rising almost monthly and are getting to the point of pricing themselves out of the market. In the long run will do a lot of harm to the hobby as people will buy less games.

I was also really unhappy at the KS for this game as it was a great example of how to run a KS really badly. I looked at it and the P&P priced it out for me and then they changed it to free P&P for the UK halfway through but it was too late when I saw the change. And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

I do think £80 rrp is greed on the part of the publishers.
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Ab Normal
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Thunder wrote:
Rindel wrote:
Is this really worth £70, seems like a lot.


I have the game and have played it a couple of time. With all the rules issues I would echo the person above who suggested trying before buying.

The game has some interesting aspects to be sure, but there are some real oddities as well. I think the game needed more playtesting to iron out some of the bugs.

Peace


All that aside do you think it is a good game once you get a hang of the rules? Do they at least make thematic sense so that you can perhaps house rule somethings?



I own the game and gave played it a few times. Theme just oozes from it. Some of the rules weren't spelled out fully, but after reading some of the game designers posts answering these questions, the rules make a lot of sense thematically. I think the art and components are very good (aside from some of the misprints). It's sort of a dungeon crawl combined with Pandemic. You move, search rooms, kill monsters (zombies), but need to do it methodically and with a certain amount of turns.

I really enjoy it. Just my opinion. There are people who don't like it as much. To each his own.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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First, i love the game.

Second, this game is in my top three all time for fascinating mechanics. The co-op mechanics are totally new, never seen before. I am so fascinated with how the different mansion layouts can totally change the tactical aspect of the game.

Jorune

The other 2 games are Dune and Arkham Horror.
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Anders Pedersen
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Drittz wrote:

And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

When a designer makes a game, he does not have to look at actual pricing. He is free to design the game however he wants.
Once the game is being sold to a publisher, they will have to do the counting and decide how much to keep in the base game and what stuff to either drop totally or keep for an expansion.
A lot of games get stripped that way and I have seen absolutely no proof at all pointing to Queen Games having done differently.
It is pure speculation when people claim they tried to cheat their customers during the Kickstarter.
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dbc- wrote:
Drittz wrote:

And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

When a designer makes a game, he does not have to look at actual pricing. He is free to design the game however he wants.
Once the game is being sold to a publisher, they will have to do the counting and decide how much to keep in the base game and what stuff to either drop totally or keep for an expansion.
A lot of games get stripped that way and I have seen absolutely no proof at all pointing to Queen Games having done differently.
It is pure speculation when people claim they tried to cheat their customers during the Kickstarter.


Especially since the same game is going to retail as such. You think there trying to skrew everyone over? Or maybe they just want to send a game to retail at an acceptable msrp?

Jorune

Edit and by you, i dont mean YOU dbc, just. General you
 
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Michael Burke
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dbc- wrote:
Drittz wrote:

And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

When a designer makes a game, he does not have to look at actual pricing. He is free to design the game however he wants.
Once the game is being sold to a publisher, they will have to do the counting and decide how much to keep in the base game and what stuff to either drop totally or keep for an expansion.
A lot of games get stripped that way and I have seen absolutely no proof at all pointing to Queen Games having done differently.
It is pure speculation when people claim they tried to cheat their customers during the Kickstarter.


I'm just going off what I've read of others complaints but I think it was known that certain figures were removed from the KS and then added back as stretch goals. If a game is designed to use these then I do have an issue with them being removed then being added back in as KS exclusives. If content is a KS exclusive and wasn't designed as part of the game then that is fine. You do have to look at it and say £70 is starting to get a little bonkers for a board game.
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Michael Burke
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Jorune wrote:
dbc- wrote:
Drittz wrote:

And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

When a designer makes a game, he does not have to look at actual pricing. He is free to design the game however he wants.
Once the game is being sold to a publisher, they will have to do the counting and decide how much to keep in the base game and what stuff to either drop totally or keep for an expansion.
A lot of games get stripped that way and I have seen absolutely no proof at all pointing to Queen Games having done differently.
It is pure speculation when people claim they tried to cheat their customers during the Kickstarter.


Especially since the same game is going to retail as such. You think there trying to skrew everyone over? Or maybe they just want to send a game to retail at an acceptable msrp?

Jorune

Edit and by you, i dont mean YOU dbc, just. General you


The only issue with your point is £70 isn't an acceptable msrp
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David Ausloos
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70 pounds is a very steep price for DDD.
Queen was selling the game at Essen for 54 pounds.
That is alot less than 70, and I think a fair price for a big box game with alot of stuff in the box.

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Michael Burke
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ausloosd wrote:

70 pounds is a very steep price for DDD.
Queen was selling the game at Essen for 54 pounds.
That is alot less than 70, and I think a fair price for a big box game with alot of stuff in the box.



David hope you didn't take it personally as it's not just about DDD more about the direction games are taking in pricing. I do have an issue with Queen games pricing as they stand out to me as one of the worst offenders. They produce some really good games but their pricing sucks outside of Germany. I agree I think for any game like this £50 is a fair price.
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Andy Pelton
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The Kickstarter price for the game in comparison to the retail price for the UK is excellent.

I pledged $106 which is approx £66. This is cheaper than the RRP and with a fair bit of extras.

I would have expected the retail price to be about £50-60

I'm looking forward to receiving it, although I don't know when that will be.
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Jeffrey Smith
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ausloosd wrote:
It is not the easiest game to win, and I feel alot of people feel it is "unbalanced" because they expected a 50/50 win ratio.
This is not that kind of game, certainly not in the first 4 plays.
The design aim was hardcore survival horror, with alot of surprises thrown at you from all direction, forcing players to develop adaptive strategies and tactics. You need to develop a very flexible way of playing, adapting to the ever-changing house.
From my experience, once players begin to see the optimalization possibilities of actions spent within a group, they are upping their chances for survival with a good chunk. And when they finally win...it will feel extremely satisfying.
Absolute truth.

I think another issue is some people really care about winning, perhaps more than just the pleasure of playing a game. If you go into the game wanting a "fair" chance of winning, then forget this one. The house is stacked against you; Zombies, creatures, fires, security codes, cameras, limited stuff to find, and a nut-case nemesis to deal with should you even make it into the lab. Some people have written that to invest two hours into a game and then lose is a waste of time. I don't see it that way, but if you do then buy something else.

But if you want a game with lots of depth and decisions, great player interaction, tons of theme, and that spins a great story, this is a good choice. Winning is just icing on the cake.


As to the "missing" components that were removed from the retail version, there is plenty in the base set. The few extra creatures and nemesis are fun to have, but their absence hardly devalues the game. In fact in eight games I've only had two creatures actually show up, and neither time were they the Kickstarter extras but the standard ones. I really want to fight that gorilla!
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Tyrone ..................
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dbc- wrote:
Drittz wrote:

And don't get me started on the issue with the content as I think you get less of a completed game at retail as things have been removed from the originally planned game to make certain figures KS exclusives from what I read. It has somewhat diminished my enthusiasm for the game which is a shame.

When a designer makes a game, he does not have to look at actual pricing. He is free to design the game however he wants.
Once the game is being sold to a publisher, they will have to do the counting and decide how much to keep in the base game and what stuff to either drop totally or keep for an expansion.
A lot of games get stripped that way and I have seen absolutely no proof at all pointing to Queen Games having done differently.
It is pure speculation when people claim they tried to cheat their customers during the Kickstarter.


jbbnbsmith wrote:
Absolute truth.

I think another issue is some people really care about winning, perhaps more than just the pleasure of playing a game. If you go into the game wanting a "fair" chance of winning, then forget this one. The house is stacked against you; Zombies, creatures, fires, security codes, cameras, limited stuff to find, and a nut-case nemesis to deal with should you even make it into the lab. Some people have written that to invest two hours into a game and then lose is a waste of time. I don't see it that way, but if you do then buy something else.

But if you want a game with lots of depth and decisions, great player interaction, tons of theme, and that spins a great story, this is a good choice. Winning is just icing on the cake.


As to the "missing" components that were removed from the retail version, there is plenty in the base set. The few extra creatures and nemesis are fun to have, but their absence hardly devalues the game. In fact in eight games I've only had two creatures actually show up, and neither time were they the Kickstarter extras but the standard ones. I really want to fight that gorilla!


These are good points. Well said to both you.
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I don't know what the exchange rate is in the UK but the cost is $54 (USD) I am very satisfied with the price. I like the game a lot. As far as production, the game delivers. The cardboard displays and tiles are very thick, graphics are great, you get a bunch of minis and cubes which should satisfy any Ameri-trash or Euro player (best of both worlds). My gripes are with the mini's, they aren't very detailed and on the small size. Keep in mind, it is possible you will be dealing with many of these per space at times which can somewhat justify requiring a smaller sculpt. My other gripe are the few miss-prints in the game components. (I'm also assuming this will be corrected in the retail release) Some people complained of the rules but I thought they were done very well. It is hard to explain the Multi-tracker on paper, that was the trickiest part for me. The mechanics are great and the game is very difficult. I have Shadows Over Camelot and Arkham Horror and I seldom ever win at all at those games but rate them very highly. If you like to play a game where you always win or have a ration of more wins than losses then this game is not for you. You really have to play strategically at points as your getting hammered at times from all sides between the Fire Spreading, Single Zombies, Hordes of Zombies, LOS to The Camera System and Spawn Tokens, Creatures and The Nemesis. Also keep in mind you can tailor the game to your tastes as far as setup and layout of the mansion and the difficulty. I played 3 games right after one another and lost all 3, the first 2 miserably but made it to the showdown the 3rd time, once I got all the rules down. The theme is great, and it tells a great story. This will be one of the games I'll be playing over the Holiday's this year.
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Jonathan
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TigerTailz wrote:
I don't know what the exchange rate is in the UK but the cost is $54 (USD)...


The cheapest I've seen this is £62.99 which equates to around $102. In most places it's closer to $110.

Let me ask, apart from the KS people who have a tendancy to get carried away and spend way over the top, would anyone actually spend over $100 on this game? Bear in mind that it includes tax but is the cheapest I can find in the UK. The RRP is basically $130




 
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