Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
88 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Caprice Nisei rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Troy Jennings
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Your first problem is trying to make an impenetrable server as Jinteki
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ryan
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're right. She's quite good. And I just realized you don't need any ice for Caprice Nisei to work.

According to FAQ 1.3 page 3: "The word 'all' includes the number zero."

Caprice says: "When the runner passes all of the ice protecting this server..."

So if there are zero ice, and the runner runs on Caprice, then the runner has passed all of them.

Pop-up windows would be perfect for her, b/c they would give you the credits to spend on her ability (or not). But not strictly necessary.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bestia immonda
Italy
Bologna
Bologna
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Can't see the strenght of this card.
Is Snowflake played? Not so much, I play Jinteki quite a lot but I've never included the unreliable Snowflake. I'm not interested in having a chance to stop the runner! Should I feel safe placing an agenda in a server protected by Caprice? Meh. I rather use Ash.
Please enlighten me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
nicktaruffi wrote:
Can't see the strenght of this card.
Is Snowflake played? Not so much, I play Jinteki quite a lot but I've never included the unreliable Snowflake.
Please enlighten me.


Snowflake is unreliable because when the Runner needs to get in, they just break it. Are Nisei Mk II Tokens valuable? Caprice Nisei is a betting game to try and buy one and use it immediately. Or at least betting game to reduce the Runner's Credit pool so they can't trash your stuff.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lysander
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
My primary concern is this card's prospective interaction with Director Haas/Ash. You're essentially gaining a click every turn unless the runner bids correctly twice (plus getting into the server and affording the trash on Haas).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bestia immonda
Italy
Bologna
Bologna
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
etherial wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:
Can't see the strenght of this card.
Is Snowflake played? Not so much, I play Jinteki quite a lot but I've never included the unreliable Snowflake.
Please enlighten me.


Snowflake is unreliable because when the Runner needs to get in, they just break it. Are Nisei Mk II Tokens valuable? Caprice Nisei is a betting game to try and buy one and use it immediately. Or at least betting game to reduce the Runner's Credit pool so they can't trash your stuff.


Whoa, actually Caprice + Ash is pretty nasty
OK I need to reconsider this.
Thanks guys!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
General Norris
Spain
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Here's the deal. She's unreliable as hell and relying on her will lose you games.

Losing an agenda thirty percent of the time is not worth it. It's like gambling on R&D accesses, it will make you lose too many games so in order to tap that amazing 66% of automatic run ends you need heavy support.

And the game has plenty of cards that can provide that heavy support. Ash is the clear option, being great on his own, great with other upgrades and making any server he's in reliable.

Imagine running on server with both Ash and Caprice. First since she'll be played in Jinteki RP you'll need to break a annoying piece of ICE, probably that Shock.R reprint, Grim or Ichi 1.0. Then you'll need to make a run on a two or three ICE server, with probably more biorroids or other combo ICE that isn't overly expensive but will cost you at least eight or nine credits and then you need at least ten credits to trash them both and beat Ash's trace plus risking a disconnect chance.

That's enough pain to find success with the deck.


What Caprice Ninsei allows Jinteki RP to do is to make a smaller server and subsitute expensive ICE with upgrades and makes deck faster, forcing the runner to run more often on remotes and offering a greater amount of control the Corp player, which is exactly what Caprice herself needs.


I've noted elsewhere that I'm waiting to build a deck like this:

11 Agendas (Corp War, Ninsei, Gila Hand/Clone Retirement)

3 Shock.R reprint
3 Ichi 1.0 (6inf)
3 Chum
1 Cell Portal
3 Wall of Thorns
3 Pop-Up Window (3inf)
2 Elli 1.0 (2inf)
1 Neural Katana


3 Sundew
3 Melange, Mining Corp
3 Encryption Protocols

3 Caprice Ninsei
2 Ash 2X
2 Akitaro Watanabe

3 Hedge Fund

Pretty much self-explanatory and allowing a lot of customization. You can run traps, Trick of Light, Midori (
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bestia immonda
Italy
Bologna
Bologna
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ash+Caprice+Hokusai Grid.
Come at me bro!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
b a n j o wrote:
General_Norris wrote:
Here's the deal. She's unreliable as hell and relying on her will lose you games.

Losing an agenda thirty percent of the time is not worth it. It's like gambling on R&D accesses, it will make you lose too many games so in order to tap that amazing 66% of automatic run ends you need heavy support.


I don't know if I can call her unreliable. I cannot think of another card which can end (at worst) 67% of the runs.

I'd play Fetal AI, as it would require the runner to have an additional 2 credits.



Throw Red Herrings in there too
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Sutcliffe
United Kingdom
Manchester
flag msg tools
Avatar
Caprice is nuts. Maybe the best card for any Corp. The potential for her to tax the runner for repeated wasted runs is unprecedented. Stick her on Melange with a Tollbooth in front of her and let the fun commence!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Solow
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If I remember her correctly, I want her protecting my ronins so that I can fire them off.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Berton
Canada
flag msg tools
General_Norris wrote:

11 Agendas (Corp War, Ninsei, Gila Hand/Clone Retirement)

3 Shock.R reprint
3 Ichi 1.0 (6inf)
3 Chum
1 Cell Portal
3 Wall of Thorns
3 Pop-Up Window (3inf)
2 Elli 1.0 (2inf)
1 Neural Katana


3 Sundew
3 Melange, Mining Corp
3 Encryption Protocols

3 Caprice Ninsei
2 Ash 2X
2 Akitaro Watanabe

3 Hedge Fund
(


That's 18 influence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
b a n j o wrote:
Jinteki is the only deck I currently don't play on a regular basis. I'm not saying the Corporation isn't good right now, only that I don't have a deck for them which I feel comfortable piloting.

Enter Caprice Nisei.

I cannot wait for her release. Install a couple of Pop-Up Windows in front of her, and if the runner doesn't have a way to trash ICE, Jinteki has a server which is impenetrable (at worst) 67% of the time. 67%. Let that sink in for a minute.

I, for one, welcome our new Jinteki overlords.


I fear that netrunner will be utternly ruined as a competitive game as a result of this card. (And yes, it makes Jinteki great, which is not why netrunner ends).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Finkel
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alexfrog wrote:
I fear that netrunner will be utternly ruined as a competitive game as a result of this card. (And yes, it makes Jinteki great, which is not why netrunner ends).


I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think the game will go very long without some way around her. Perhaps a way to access a server without passing the last piece of ICE (a la Sneakdoor Beta), a way to auto-win a Psi attempt, or perhaps a way to kill an upgrade in the middle of a run.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob Bobberson
msg tools
Avatar
I think the real killer combo in replicating perfection will be Caprice plus Ruhr Valley in a scoring remote.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Hollis
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
If Caprice is going to be printed as-spoiled, my mind is kind of blown. I feel like there are enough historical examples to know that random, sequential effects are generally a negative play experience in tactical and strategic games. Stun-chaining in WoW arenas, anyone? I can only speak for personal experience on this one, but dicerolling to determine outcome always detracts from play experience in games of conflict; see Risk vs. Imperial (the exception might be if you're rolling a billion dice... though I've yet to see a game that does that).

Wasn't there a whole hubbub about how A:NR has removed the dice-rolling component that was part of O:NR? Caprice as-spoiled is a fancy form of dice rolling.

Even if Caprice doesn't detract from gameplay in practice, I kind of find it distressing that the concept was even printed as a card. It behaves very differently than psi effects on ice, since cards can't work around it. Sure, runner might get a new suite of tools that allow them to deal with upgrades directly, but then we're getting into silver-bullet territory which again kind of makes me feel like it's the type of strategy game I don't want to play.

I recognize this is personal preference, and there are some people out there who think random mechanics enhance the quality of gameplay. My personal preference is that "I don't want to play a game where mechanics like Caprice Nisei are seen during gameplay".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
hollis wrote:
the exception might be if you're rolling a billion dice... though I've yet to see a game that does that


6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Angell
msg tools
i feel like people are imagining the dream caprice scenarios without considering the nightmare scenarios like turn 1 when the runner trashes your two copies when you were forced to leave RnD open or when they siphoned you to two credits and ran the server she was protecting, or when they parasite'd away the ice in front of the server and could run it multiple times always guessing zero.

shrug. imo she is jinteki's version of ash and makes replicating a lot more interesting. i dont see her breaking the game though.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Ryan
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
She'd have to be paired with some punishing ice to be effective.
If the run is cheap enough, you can run her multiple times, paying zero each time to drain corp credits.

Or: account siphon, run. Corp is broke and you know exactly what they'll bid.

You don't HAVE to submit to the die roll unless there is no other way to win except by running that server successfully.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R. Fetterkey
msg tools
Avatar
mb
I don't see why anyone considers Caprice a dice roll at all. In my experience with Psi ICE (read: Snowball), this really isn't the case.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Hollis
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
fetterkey wrote:
I don't see why anyone considers Caprice a dice roll at all. In my experience with Psi ICE (read: Snowball), this really isn't the case.


Caprice has analogs to rock-paper-scissors. In rock-paper-scissors you can force a draw by playing randomly. Caprice is loaded in the corp's favor, though, and the corp will "win" 2/3 of the time rather than win once, tie one, and lose once. And that's a worst-case. If you're better at modelling the runner's decisions than they are at modelling yours (i.e., MIND GAMEZ!!!(tm) ) Caprice gets even better. Looked at this way, in the worst case Caprice is a three-sided die that reads WIN-WIN-LOSE.

This is contingent on the corporation having the econ to make multiple "rolls" (and optimal 'random' strategy might be to weight rolls towards 0 and 1). That's what is going to be interesting to evaluate in practice: can corp decks be built such that multiple rolls are less taxing on the corp than they are on the runner.

Psi ICE and a Psi UPGRADE are completely different beasts, and you've already pointed out the reason: breakers can "work around" the psi game. There is (currently) no such way to "work around" the psi game of an upgrade once it is installed.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Asterisk CGY
msg tools
fetterkey wrote:
I don't see why anyone considers Caprice a dice roll at all. In my experience with Psi ICE (read: Snowball), this really isn't the case.


Snowflake*
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Tu
South Africa
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Caprice costs money. Not as much as the runner's money if they can help it, but then the game was always weighted in the runners' favour. Corp not only need to spend money to defend stuff, but need to spend to defend itself (Chimera for instance doesn't need to be rezzed when there's nothing in a remote to defend)

2. Statistically, 2/3 win means 1/3 chance of losing. That's worse than the odds of a blind R&D run hitting an agenda. (well, worse for corp, better for runner). And runners still make blind R&D runs all the time, so what's the difference?

3. Jinteki needed that shot in the arm anyway. What's the influence cost on Caprice again? I'm guessing it's 3-5 territory, not Datasucker territory.

4. Anarch has Singularity. That bastard

So no, I don't think it's a huge deal. Not even as meta-defining as R&D Interface
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Geoff Hollis
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
Tuism wrote:
2. Statistically, 2/3 win means 1/3 chance of losing. That's worse than the odds of a blind R&D run hitting an agenda. (well, worse for corp, better for runner). And runners still make blind R&D runs all the time, so what's the difference?


Cool point.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Dugger

Corvallis
Oregon
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Tuism wrote:

4. Anarch has Singularity. That bastard


Singularity is triggered on successful run. Caprice is deliberately worded to trigger before that. The only way through caprice is playing the guessing game correctly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.