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Subject: Retreat needs clarification rss

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Rulebook 3.00

This part of the rules is hard for me to understand//
------
7.7.15 Retreat of Ground Units
For GU, the adjacent retreat hex:
a. must be in a direction away from the bat-
tle hex where, if the unit continued moving
in that direction any distance required, it
would finally reach a supply source with-
out moving farther and passing through
any of:
• an all-water hex,
• an enemy ZOC (eZOC),
• an enemy controlled city,
• a hex occupied by an enemy unit (even
if it is a plane performing an air mission),
• another battle hex.

or the adjacent retreat hex.

b. may be a hex in any direction con-
taining only friendly units or a friendly city
(fortress, major or minor).
If both these conditions fail to be met, the
unit cannot are eliminated.

----

I interpret this as;
A unit that retreats can be moved to one single adjacent hex by the controlling player. The hex must meet at least one of the following requirements;

a- the hex contains only friendly units, or is a friendly city or fortress;
b- the hex is empty and a friendly supply source;
c- the hex is empty, but an imaginary straight line of any length can be drawn in the same direction to a friendly supply source, without passing through;
• an all-water hex,
• an enemy ZOC (eZOC),
• an enemy controlled city,
• a hex occupied by an enemy unit (even
if it is a plane performing an air mission),
• another battle hex.

If no such hex is available, the unit can not retreat and is eliminated.

........
Is this correct or have I misunderstood something?


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Emanuele Santandrea
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Hello,

sometimes things are appear really complicate, and this one is one of the most complicated. Let's try to make it easier saying that:

When retreating from a battle hex, Ground Units must move in a adjacent hex.

This hex must be a friendly occupied hex, a friendly major city hex or fortress

OR

must be a hex NOT in an enemy ZOC. In this case the retreating unit must go toward a friendly supply source.

In other words, a Soviet unit, when retreating, may not go WEST, and an Axis unit may not go EAST.

Does it help?

emanuele





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GeeKenny GeeKenny
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Okay, so when retreating:

1) I may move into a empty hex?

2) I may move to a minor city?

gr,
Kenny.
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Filip Labarque
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GeeKenny wrote:

Okay, so when retreating:

1) I may move into a empty hex?

2) I may move to a minor city?

gr,
Kenny.


Kenny,

I think the idea for the added retreat rules is just to make sure that the units retreat in the correct direction. Axis retreats west and soviets retreat east generally. To bigest change is that you cannot retreat to a hex of your choosing, it has to be the shortest path to a supply source.
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GeeKenny GeeKenny
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Okay filip, but when I have multiple options to retreat, why does it have to be the short route? let's say I have 2 routes to retreat.

1) The short route, but this one is blocked due to enemy zone of control

2) And I have another route to retreat, which is open.

Can I retreat or not?
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Filip Labarque
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GeeKenny wrote:

Okay filip, but when I have multiple options to retreat, why does it have to be the short route? let's say I have 2 routes to retreat.

1) The short route, but this one is blocked due to enemy zone of control

2) And I have another route to retreat, which is open.

Can I retreat or not?


You should retreat following the shortest route that doest not pass through:
• an all-water hex,
• an enemy ZOC (eZOC),
• an enemy controlled city,
• a hex occupied by an enemy unit (even
if it is a plane performing an air mission),
• another battle hex.

So if those were your only 2 options for retreat, you should use the 2nd path.
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Can you please refer to the number of the rules section stating that the shortest route is the only legal one, I didn´t find it. Thanks.
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wingnut69 wrote:
Can you please refer to the number of the rules section stating that the shortest route is the only legal one, I didn´t find it. Thanks.


Hello Wingnut,

I believe you are right. The rule must be clarified, adding the sentence in blue. Thanks for this.

7.7.15 Retreat of Ground Units
For GU, the adjacent retreat hex:
a. must be in a direction away from the battle
hex where, if the unit continued moving
in that direction any distance required, it
would finally reach a supply source without
moving farther and passing through
any of:
• an all-water hex,
• an enemy ZOC (eZOC),
• an enemy controlled city,
• a hex occupied by an enemy unit (even
if it is a plane performing an air mission),
• another battle hex.
If 2 or more paths are available, the shortest one must be chosen.


b. or the adjacent retreat hex. may be a
hex in any direction containing only
friendly units or a friendly city (fortress,
major or minor).
If both these conditions fail to be met, the
unit cannot retreat and is eliminated.

Better now?

ALL THE BEST

emanuele
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Aha, OK thank you very much for the reply. I will scribble in my rule book.

Shortest straight route if no friendly units or city is available.

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Mirko Valmori
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In the following situation, who controls the city hex?

Germany attacks a city garrisoned by russian troops.

Combat phase end with russian defeat (by retreat o by death!). If German decides to retreat ALL his attacking troops, who controls the city hex?

Thanks
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valmorix wrote:
In the following situation, who controls the city hex?

Germany attacks a city garrisoned by russian troops.

Combat phase end with russian defeat (by retreat o by death!). If German decides to retreat ALL his attacking troops, who controls the city hex?

Thanks


Interesting situation.
I woul say no one controls the city, since they are both a bunch of retreating cowards.

Although in reality I see no reason for the Germans to give up the city hex, since cities are excellent defensive positions.
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Great question Mirko.

The attacker (the German in this case) is the last one retreating, so he controls the city (but also check if there's a river, as ZOC doens't extent across)



emanuele
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Mirko Valmori
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to Filip: Germany retires to maintain a supply chain.

to Ema: if the city hex is in ZOC of both armies?
or in no ZOC?
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valmorix wrote:
to Filip: Germany retires to maintain a supply chain.

to Ema: if the city hex is in ZOC of both armies?
or in no ZOC?


Ciao Mirko,

the situation is very tricky. Is the city minor or major?

I ask because while ZOC does not extend into enemy controlled major cities, while it does into minor ones.

Any chance to see a pic? I'm very curious to see how games develope.

ALL THE BEST


emanuele

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Mirko Valmori
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Why ZOC is so important? Rule 3.3 says:

3.3 Hex Control of Cities, Factories, and Production Centers
Once a ground unit enters and/or passes
through a city, production center, or
oilfield hex, that hex is immediately
conquered and therefore controlled.
...

Who is the last unit who passes through a city hex if both armies retreats?

German is the last who retreats, that's fine...but, if he retreats, has he passed through the town hex or the two armies has fought outside the town? The tricky situation is originated by this case.

I don't have a pic, because this was a case study i presented to my friends when explaining last FAQ.
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valmorix wrote:
Why ZOC is so important? Rule 3.3 says:

3.3 Hex Control of Cities, Factories, and Production Centers
Once a ground unit enters and/or passes
through a city, production center, or
oilfield hex, that hex is immediately
conquered and therefore controlled.
...

Who is the last unit who passes through a city hex if both armies retreats?

German is the last who retreats, that's fine...but, if he retreats, has he passed through the town hex or the two armies has fought outside the town? The tricky situation is originated by this case.

I don't have a pic, because this was a case study i presented to my friends when explaining last FAQ.

Is there such a situation possible on the map..if not then why worry.
If so, worry about it when you come across it.
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Mirko Valmori
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hipshot wrote:
Is there such a situation possible on the map..if not then why worry. If so, worry about it when you come across it.


...pragmatic!
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Alex Aminoff
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I am still having trouble with these retreat rules.

So suppose there are some German units south of Rostov trying for Baku. Would they not be able to retreat (unless a friendly unit was there providing a retreat path) because no straight path westwards can be traced that does not hit the Black Sea?
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aaminoff wrote:
I am still having trouble with these retreat rules.

So suppose there are some German units south of Rostov trying for Baku. Would they not be able to retreat (unless a friendly unit was there providing a retreat path) because no straight path westwards can be traced that does not hit the Black Sea?


Hello Alex,

is the situation you are describing similar to the one in this pic?




ALL THE BEST


emanuele

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Alex Aminoff
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Not quite, since in that picture the situation is clear because of the Soviet ZOCs. But what if the Soviet units marked 64 and 6 were not there. Going in a straight line directly West, you hit the Sea of Azov before you reach a supply source. Going northwest, you eventually reach the Baltic, I think. So would that unit then be unable to retreat (except onto an adjacent unit)?

I think I understand that the basic concept is you can't retreat "forward", but I'm trying to understand why the part about any distance to a supply source.

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Emanuele Santandrea
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Alex,

I believe you hit the hidden point of the rule and this great.

If those 2 Soviet units were not there, then the story would have been different.

Please note that a unit:

7.7.15 Retreat of Ground Units
For GU, the adjacent retreat hex:

a. must be in a direction away from the battle
hex where, if the unit continued moving
in that direction any distance required, it
would finally reach a supply source without
moving farther
and passing through
any of:
• an all-water hex,
• an enemy ZOC (eZOC),
• an enemy controlled city,
• a hex occupied by an enemy unit (even
if it is a plane performing an air mission),
• another battle hex.
panzer cannot retreat there, because it would have enlonged its supply lane.

without
moving farther
in this case is the key part.

Does it help?

ALL THE BEST

emanuele
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