Recommend
16 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Chit questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrew Long

Mesa
Arizona
msg tools
designer
New to Wargaming. I'm curious. Do you call them chits or counters or something else? What do you find appealing or appalling about chits in games today? Does the art matter to you? Or is it all about function?

BONUS: If there could be only one chit...what would it be?
6 
 Thumb up
1.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Humphries
Philippines
Unspecified
Metro Manila
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.
50 
 Thumb up
1.15
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.


+1
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cpl. Fields
South Africa
Hopelessly Surrounded
Isandlwana, Zululand
flag msg tools
<insert something pithy here>
badge
<insert something clever here>
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+2
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.





11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zoran Bosnjak
Croatia
Zaprešić
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Atraxrobustus wrote:
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.






He can stick his comment to his a** as you like aesthetics and watermarks or you wholeheartidly agree? laugh

I would like to add that I like counters and chits, but have a problem with long initial setup.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim
United States
Frederick
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.


Cannot say it any better...

+3
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ocean Druen
United States
Buffalo Grove
IL
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I say chits!

But I also hate getting corrected on the forums so I say counters here. shake
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Long

Mesa
Arizona
msg tools
designer
Anyone want to post examples of their favorites vs the abominations?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
OR
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
DarkTori wrote:
I say chits!

But I also hate getting corrected on the forums so I say counters here. shake


I do the opposite.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
longcreative wrote:
Anyone want to post examples of their favorites vs the abominations?


It should be noted that my "favorites" are all from older games. While "abominations" might be a bit strong, the bottom three are my examples of overblown excess in graphic design. I begin to think that some designers simply become overly enthralled with today's graphic technologies, and forget the maxim of "function over form". It should be noted that as for the "abominations", I'm only commenting on the counter art - the games themselves are actually considered to be quite good.

Favorites:





Abominations:


20 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zoran Bosnjak
Croatia
Zaprešić
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, another man's treasure... I consider first abomination from post above (Liberty Roads counters) very nice flavor for the game. However, it takes longer to setup, which nobody likes (despite neat trick of coloring infantry symbol yellow in last one, which signals usage in one of scenarios).

I can list my abomination, counters from Red God of War: The Soviet Operation Mars, 1942


and to quote comment from the game forum:

They decided to make a different background graphic for all of the Guards formations. So they have a Guards background color, instead of the color of their army HQ. They are *not*, however, their own army. Instead they are scattered over about half the armies present, some with one, some with four, some with none, etc.

And nowhere on the counters does it tell you which army they are in.
Since the Russian units can only be activated by their own army HQ, this is rather a large oversight.


6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim F
United Kingdom
Birmingham
West Midlands
flag msg tools
Where the heck did this interest in WW1 come from?
badge
Ashwin in front of Tiger 131
Avatar
mbmbmb

Agreed about the BoB counters. Sold the game because I knew I could never play it with those cartoon style drawings and fonts.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
. .

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
longcreative wrote:
New to Wargaming. I'm curious. Do you call them chits or counters or something else? What do you find appealing or appalling about chits in games today? Does the art matter to you? Or is it all about function?

BONUS: If there could be only one chit...what would it be?


Usually wargames break the chits into two categories:

Units = Counters
Status + anything else = Markers

Counters are to Kleenex as Chits are to Facial Tissues.

Appealing - Ease of storage for games where you might have hundreds or thousands. Scalable without having to re-learn every new game component. Carries a ton of information at a glance. Check out the breakdown for what's included in an ASL AFV counter sometime. Your mind will break.

Appalling - Graphic design is important. Just check out the counters from Lock & Lock's World at War ... that 70's typeface is so hard to read it's almost worthless. Too cartoony can defeat the purpose of the counter. Too realistic or line-artish and suddenly you've gone too minimal. Some people dig the NATO symbology while others prefer the silhouettes. Mostly it's personal taste once you get beyond the readability and information design.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shishmish wrote:
Atraxrobustus wrote:
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.

Good graphic design is functional as well as aesthetic. If functionality is too compromised for the sake of aesthetics, it is no longer good graphic design but self-indulgence on the part of the designer.

What I find appaling is counters that are too busy and hard to read, with garish headache inducing color combinations, video-game like graphics and obfuscating flourishes such as watermarks.






He can stick his comment to his a** as you like aesthetics and watermarks or you wholeheartidly agree? laugh

I would like to add that I like counters and chits, but have a problem with long initial setup.


I wholeheartedly agree..with bells on
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Since we're talking about counters we don't like...

Drive on Moscow

There is no real reason why..they are functional,clear and the illustrations are nicely drawn...I just don't like them
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo Zappa
United States
Aliquippa
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Atraxrobustus wrote:

Since we're talking about counters we don't like...

Drive on Moscow

There is no real reason why..they are functional,clear and the illustrations are nicely drawn...I just don't like them


I know why I don't like them - I think using cartoon pictures of soldiers on counters that are supposed to represent division-level units is just ridiculous...

I can abide (barely) cartoon characters for tactical games, but for operational level and above, it really is an abomination.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Arthur
Australia
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
desertfox2004 wrote:
Atraxrobustus wrote:

Since we're talking about counters we don't like...

Drive on Moscow

There is no real reason why..they are functional,clear and the illustrations are nicely drawn...I just don't like them


I know why I don't like them - I think using cartoon pictures of soldiers on counters that are supposed to represent division-level units is just ridiculous...

I can abide (barely) cartoon characters for tactical games, but for operational level and above, it really is an abomination.



In case you don't know Leo there are counterfaces with plain old NATO symbology that you can download from the DoM forum site on CSW so you can make up alternate counters..I would but the originals don't offend me THAT much
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
It's just a ride...
England
Bury St Edmunds
Suffolk
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
It is notoriously difficult to find. It's located just above the...

Oh, I just saw you said chit.
4 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darrell Hanning
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
We will meet at the Hour of Scampering.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mark_WH wrote:
Counters. You push counters on a map, you pull chits from a cup.


I never even heard them called "chits" until I learned a game where some went into a cup.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Taylor
United States
Lake Forest
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've seen token used in a similar manner to marker.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David K
Canada
toronto
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I think they're all chits, but counters are combat units or leaders and markers signify thew units current status from a variety of perspectives.

Edit: too slow.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Stearns
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually this question came up at BGGCON this weekend. Someone asked our table of war gamers whether we called them chits or counters. The unanimous response was "Counters!".

Here are a few examples of my favorites.



From The Longest Day. Instead of NATO symbols the game uses the symbology from the German military during WW2.





These are from the La Bataille series by Clash of Arms. These are all French units. When playing the game you cannot easily distinguish friend from foe because both sides share similarly colored units. I know, I know it isn't functional. In addition much of the counter information is on the back of the counter. The design of the counters are based on the colors and designs of the units actual uniforms. I think they are beautiful works of art and though not functional, they are so aesthetically pleasing I overlook the function problem. PLaying with them really isn't hard and the game when set up is gorgeous. In my opinion these are the best looking counters ever.






3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edward Pundyk
Canada
Ontario
flag msg tools
gohrns wrote:
Actually this question came up at BGGCON this weekend. Someone asked our table of war gamers whether we called them chits or counters. The unanimous response was "Counters!".

Here are a few examples of my favorites.



From The Longest Day. Instead of NATO symbols the game uses the symbology from the German military during WW2.





These are from the La Bataille series by Clash of Arms. These are all French units. When playing the game you cannot easily distinguish friend from foe because both sides share similarly colored units. I know, I know it isn't functional. In addition much of the counter information is on the back of the counter. The design of the counters are based on the colors and designs of the units actual uniforms. I think they are beautiful works of art and though not functional, they are so aesthetically pleasing I overlook the function problem. PLaying with them really isn't hard and the game when set up is gorgeous. In my opinion these are the best looking counters ever.









I think the confusing counters in the La Batt series add a level of realism. It was not uncommon in the powder-smoke covered battlefields of the era for commanders to mistake enemy formations for friendlies and vice versa.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Sutton
Australia
Moruya
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb




You are so right with these counters. They are classics. It was these that first sucked me into this life long obsession...

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.