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Subject: Uniform Token Redesign rss

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Joe S
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Decided to redesign most of the Netrunner tokens so that they're all uniform in size. This way I can make trays for them (think poker chip trays) for storage and what not). They're a furtherance on my work from the custom MU/Link tokens I did here: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1654904/android-netrunner

I also added new credit values and recolored them to match with standard poker chip denominations. Brain damage is on there twice to get the brain facing both directions like on the original tokens. Credits, Advancement, Click would be done double sided )same image on both sides). Generic, Brain Damage, MU/Link would be done with one image on one side, the other on the opposite side (similar to how the Bad Pub / Tag tokens are).

If folks like these, I can make up ready to print sheets so you don't have to go nuts aligning / flipping etc.



The Bad Pub / Trace tokens are there at the bottom just for comparison's sake.

These were also designed with my playmat design in mind, all those tracks for tracking are the same form factor.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1072069/playmat-design-revis...
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1847049/android-netrunner
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1847047/android-netrunner
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1847045/android-netrunner
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1847044/android-netrunner
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/97326/netrunner-playmats-w...
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Matt Wilson
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They look really nice!

I think being able to deploy a 100-credit token during play is now my new netrunner life-goal, though.
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Brian H
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I like it...though I think credit denominations between 1 and 5 would have made more sense.
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Rodney "Watch It Played" Smith
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Looks great (and so do your playmats).
 
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Joe S
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I wholly realize the 100c token is overkill, but hey, ya gotta have goals.

The other question, of course, is how many of each to print on up.
The base set came with:
Click Tracker x 2
Brain Damage x 6
Generic x 23 (double sided / two tone)
1 Credit / Adv x 51 (double sided / two tone)
5 Credit x 8
Bad Pub / Tag x 12 (double sided / two tone)

I've added the MU / Link token to the mix.

When I did the MU tokens, the sheet I made for them could fit 30 tokens (both sides) on one 8.5 x 11 piece of paper. With that in mind, this is the spread I was thinking of (especially as intended for use with my playmat):
Sheet 1
-Click Tracker x 10
-Generic x 20
Sheet 2
-Brain Damage x 10
-MU / Link x 20
Sheet 3
-Adv Tokens x 30?
-Going to make these separate from the 1c, so how many would folks like? 30 seems like a lot, but there were, arguably, 51 of them them (or 25.5) from the base set, so).
Sheet 4
-1 Credit x 10
-5 Credit x 10
-10 Credit x 4
-25 Credit x 4
-100 Credit x 2

This would give a pool of 400 credits. If you wanted to go for a nice even 1000, you could double up sheet 4 and I could stash two more 100c tokens on one of the other sheets (two less Advance tokens perhaps).

Thoughts?
 
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Joe S
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MavericK96 wrote:
I like it...though I think credit denominations between 1 and 5 would have made more sense.


You're probably right from a game functional level. I know cva3 put up stickers for 2 and 3 denomination credits. I'd probably still want to keep them to the 'standard' poker chip colors, and between 1 and 5, 2 is the only standard (it's yellow).

If I were to go that route though, colors aside, is the matter of the spread (because yes, my OCD makes me antsy over this sort of thing):
1 x 12 White
2 x 14 Yellow
3 x 10 ???
5 x 10 Red
10 x 8 Blue
25 x 4 Green
100 x 2 Black

Gives you a total pool of 500 Credits. Each denomination is evenly divisible by two (by quantity of tokens) AND it equals 60 tokens, so it would only take up two sheets.

The only other question would be what color to make the 3C chip. Pink? Orange? Brown? Trying to think of colors that show up as poker chips that aren't too close to one of the other tokens. Grey, Purple, Burgundy, Light Blue are out for being too similar.
 
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Ian Toltz
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I could see a small number of 10s being nice, but 2s would be amazingly helpful, and 3s would be only slightly less helpful. Primarily for the many cards where you load them up with credits and then take some off at various intervals or for clicks.
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R. Fetterkey
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Credit tokens of uniform size actually strike me as extremely unhelpful because they make it much harder to tell how many credits someone has at a glance.
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Joe S
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Asmor wrote:
I could see a small number of 10s being nice, but 2s would be amazingly helpful, and 3s would be only slightly less helpful. Primarily for the many cards where you load them up with credits and then take some off at various intervals or for clicks.


Working up 2 and 3 credit tokens right now.

fetterkey wrote:
Credit tokens of uniform size actually strike me as extremely unhelpful because they make it much harder to tell how many credits someone has at a glance.


Yes and no. Depends on how they stack them, etc. Poker chips are uniform in size and it's not criminally difficult to tell what someone has for that game. I also acknowledge that these won't be for everyone. I just figured since I was doing some of the tokens to play nice on my mats, I may as well do the rest of them for uniformity's sake.
 
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Red Moss
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I like flipping the 1 credit over to the agenda advance side. It keeps me honest.
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Joe S
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Oldstench wrote:
I like flipping the 1 credit over to the agenda advance side. It keeps me honest.


Keeping the Advance Token on the back of the 1c token is doable, the question is then how many to have of the combined 1c/Adv tokens (because I'm guessing that 12 isn't nearly enough).
 
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Joe S
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Updated with 2c and 3c tokens in the mix.

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Brian H
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Now THAT is awesome.
 
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Joe S
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Looking at proofs for the print sheets, I need to monkey with the colors more, some of them look too similar to one another.
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Joe S
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Okay. Tweaked the colors, better distinguishability now.



I've uploaded a PDF with print sheets for the full set of tokens. I took the sheet with the 30 Advancement Tokens and put another 30 1c tokens on the backside of those. That means there's a total of 42 (hehe) 1c tokens in the full set. Once the file is approved I'll pop in with a link.
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Dirk Meijer
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I'd personally love credits in this distribution:
1,2,4,8,16,32,64

You'd only need two of each, and I'd say it's rather flavorful for Netrunner.

Assuming You'd never have more than 127 credits.

Edit: Eh, you'd need more, to place credits on cards.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Looks very nice. However:

- I still think that 25 and 100 are useless in Android: Netrunner. I'd prefer to see more 2,3,5 and 10 than those at all.
- Link and Memory border colors are somewhat off. Darker colors would fit better.
- People often use tag/publicity tokens for click tracking, because they have different sides. If you're doing click tracker, make it 4 or even 5-6 (Biotic Labor etc) and with a different back ("click used"), i.e. with a empty circle in there.
- Brain Damage feels a little bit too big
- The link graphic could remain more abstract (two squares connected), without reusing the memory graphic.

I would love to have a set of these.

 
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Ian Toltz
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malkie13 wrote:
Poker chips are uniform in size and it's not criminally difficult to tell what someone has for that game


Poker chips are relatively thick and have brightly-colored sides. These tokens, presumably, would be on chipboard around half the thickness of poker chips and a uniform brownish color along the side (the color of the chipboard).

Not saying I think the uniform sizes are a bad idea; just saying it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
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Ian Toltz
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One idea I'd like for a token is a double-sided red/blue click tracker. I usually use the tag/bad publicity tokens (easier to handle than the virus counters). I use them by flipping them over for each click (counting the corp's mandatory draw as a click).

As far as distributions, I'd say the first thing is to work out how many of each token are 'needed', and how many sheets you'd expect someone to print out.

Brain damage: 5 will cover 95% of cases; 7 will cover 99%.

Virus/misc tokens: Hard to say; there are certainly games where these things are used a lot.

Tag/Bad Publicity: Also hard to say.

Credits: I'd avoid Tens and higher all together. Fives are sufficient as the game currently stands, and they'll be even less of a requirement with twos and threes readily available. I'd say ~20 fives, 10 each of twos and threes, and 30-40 ones/advancement counters.

MU: 6 is probably sufficient for the vast majority of cases.

Click trackers: Let's go with 6 here as well (using my red/blue idea), or 10 if they're solid color. Obviously different people use click counters differently, and for some people one or two might be sufficient.

I don't know how large sheets would be, but if we split this up into two sheets I'd go with (per sheet):

Brain damage: 3
Virus/misc: 10
Tag/BP: 6
MU: 3
Click: 3
1c/adv: 15
2c: 5
3c: 5
5c: 10

That's 60 tokens, which could be done as 10x6 or 12x5, depending on what works best. If 10 is too many, you could do 54 or 63 with 9 rows, or 56 or 48 with 8 rows.
 
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Unfortunately, anything beyond the 10 cred denomination is just a waste of material and space in a tray for storage/transport. Just sayin. I would rather have them all replaced with 1c tokens instead.

Then again, it's not my project.
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Joe S
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rattkin wrote:
Looks very nice. However:
- I still think that 25 and 100 are useless in Android: Netrunner. I'd prefer to see more 2,3,5 and 10 than those at all.

Based on people's feedback, I will probably do another set with just the lower denominations, that way people can make whichever they would like.

Quote:
- Link and Memory border colors are somewhat off. Darker colors would fit better.


Link / MU colors were picked so that they would stand out as noticeably different from other tokens.

Quote:
- People often use tag/publicity tokens for click tracking, because they have different sides. If you're doing click tracker, make it 4 or even 5-6 (Biotic Labor etc) and with a different back ("click used"), i.e. with a empty circle in there.


If you look at my playmat (in the first post), you'll see how I've setup the click tracking. There's room for 5 clicks, which is also why on the sheets I have 10 click tokens, 5 each person. I'm considering doing two-tone click tokens based on your feedback and that of others.

Quote:
- Brain Damage feels a little bit too big

All the tokens are exactly the same size. The thin black border is a cut line for the tokens. Some of the designs have a bleed area (like Brain Damage), others do not (the credit tokens).

Quote:
- The link graphic could remain more abstract (two squares connected), without reusing the memory graphic.


Arguably, I could make abstract versions of all of the tokens, but that's a lot of design work. I could probably change the Link tokens if enough folks dislike them as they stand (though I've had those up for a while and no one's said anything about it before.

Quote:
I would love to have a set of these.


When I originally did the MU/Link tokens I pondered making sets to sell to folks, but they're kind of a tedious process. Until I find a better way to seal them that I'm also confident will hold up to play, I'd just suggest folks make their own. The multiple day of coat, cure, recoat is a pain in the ass and I'd charge through the nose for it, hehe.
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Joe S
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Asmor wrote:
malkie13 wrote:
Poker chips are uniform in size and it's not criminally difficult to tell what someone has for that game


Poker chips are relatively thick and have brightly-colored sides. These tokens, presumably, would be on chipboard around half the thickness of poker chips and a uniform brownish color along the side (the color of the chipboard).

Not saying I think the uniform sizes are a bad idea; just saying it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.


Fair enough. And I'll admit to having NO desire to try edge coloring them all. Having used the MU/Link tokens I made in play, I can tell you it's pretty easy to tell quantities in a stack at a glance. The chip board I used is as thick as the tokens in the base game.

Quote:
One idea I'd like for a token is a double-sided red/blue click tracker. I usually use the tag/bad publicity tokens (easier to handle than the virus counters). I use them by flipping them over for each click (counting the corp's mandatory draw as a click).


I'm certainly considering two-toned click tracking tokens, since that would work particularly well on my playmat, too.

Quote:
As far as distributions, I'd say the first thing is to work out how many of each token are 'needed', and how many sheets you'd expect someone to print out.

Brain damage: 5 will cover 95% of cases; 7 will cover 99%.


I have a thing for even numbers, which is why I went with 10. Could be scaled back to 8 or 6 if those 2 or 4 extra tokens were really needed elsewhere.

Quote:
Virus/misc tokens: Hard to say; there are certainly games where these things are used a lot.


As I have them setup now, you'd get 20 of them (there were 23 in the base game).

Quote:
Tag/Bad Publicity: Also hard to say.

I have no intention of making more of these, since they're the form factor I'm mirroring, there's no sense in the extra work.

Quote:
Credits: I'd avoid Tens and higher all together. Fives are sufficient as the game currently stands, and they'll be even less of a requirement with twos and threes readily available. I'd say ~20 fives, 10 each of twos and threes, and 30-40 ones/advancement counters.


Like I said above, I'm considering a second set of credit sheets all in lower denominations with the 1c / Advancement double sided tokens.

Quote:
MU: 6 is probably sufficient for the vast majority of cases.

Link and MU are opposite sides of one token, so I presently have it setup for 20 tokens. The way I use the MU, I put the used ones on programs so I can keep track of what went where. YMMV.

Quote:
Click trackers: Let's go with 6 here as well (using my red/blue idea), or 10 if they're solid color. Obviously different people use click counters differently, and for some people one or two might be sufficient.


As above, 10 works. You need enough for both players and it's unlikely that combined two people will need more than 10. Still pondering two-toned tokens for this.

Quote:
I don't know how large sheets would be, but if we split this up into two sheets I'd go with (per sheet):

Brain damage: 3
Virus/misc: 10
Tag/BP: 6
MU: 3
Click: 3
1c/adv: 15
2c: 5
3c: 5
5c: 10

That's 60 tokens, which could be done as 10x6 or 12x5, depending on what works best. If 10 is too many, you could do 54 or 63 with 9 rows, or 56 or 48 with 8 rows.


I mentioned above that the layout I use for sheets of these tokens fit 30 tokens (5x6) with front and back for all 30 on a since 8.5 x 11 piece of stock.

How you break that down all depends on final counts.

The version of the sheets that includes the higher denominations Credit tokens is up in the files section already.

http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/97374/print-sheets-for-uni...
 
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Tyler Moore
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Have you looked into permanent matte fixative? I just bought a can of Krylon 1311 which says its dry to touch in 10 minutes and dry to handle in 3 hours.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Wasn't going to mention it (as I probably won't be using these due to the time/material cost) but I had the same thought regarding the link design - not really sold on the microchips inside the link symbols. Obviously your call though. Really nice work overall
 
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Joe S
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Occamite wrote:
Have you looked into permanent matte fixative? I just bought a can of Krylon 1311 which says its dry to touch in 10 minutes and dry to handle in 3 hours.


Part of the process I'd used was also to get a texture closer to the original tokens as well as fixing the printed page to the chipboard. Also, the spray fixatives are pretty volatile (in terms of fumes) and I prefer not to deal with that if I can. Because of some truly epic duct work, fumes in the garage get sucked into the house, which means spraying / curing in the drive way. Living in a wind corridor makes this . . . challenging.

I may try and look at reviews for some of the low voc fixatives to see if they're worth a damn as an option.

I'm also looking around at different paper stock to print onto to give the tokens a more linen finish. Honestly, if I could ever get these to the point where they were relatively simple to hammer out, I'd be happy to sell sets.

CommissarFeesh wrote:
Wasn't going to mention it (as I probably won't be using these due to the time/material cost) but I had the same thought regarding the link design - not really sold on the microchips inside the link symbols. Obviously your call though. Really nice work overall


I can definitely play with them to toss something else in there (or nothing at all, though I worry that'll look oddly spartan).

Thanks for all the feedback, folks.
 
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