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Poll
How often do you play War of the Ring with the LoME expansion? (Please answer only if you own or have access to the expansion.)
Always
Often
Sometimes
Rarely
Never
      77 answers
Poll created by Scottgun
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kevin long
United States
Portland
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Only time i wouldn't play LOME is if the opponent doesn't want to or is unfamiliar and resistant.
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Jim Hansen
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Naperville
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There are a lot of things I like about LOME, but a few things keep me from always using it.

1) The games generally last about 50% longer. The FP is able to defend better and the SP is able to corrupt better, so the average game takes a few more turns. 10 to 14 turns is common whereas regular 2nd edition is usually in the 7 to 9 range.

2) It feels more lucky. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels that way, but well over half of my LOME games have been completely unwinnable for one side or the other. It almost has a runaway leader problem where a turn 1 reveal gives the SP an ~80% chance of victory, but poor early hunting can give the FP an ~80% chance of victory. Also, lesser dice can leave after 1 turn or stay for 10 turns and that has a big impact. Rolling an eye with a lesser keeper die not only makes moving the FSP more difficult, but it also costs an action and possibly removes the die.

3) Lorien is basically unconquerable with Galadriel in play. This reduces Shadow military options and also accentuates the Elves small reinforcement pool and reinforcement management (which I don't particularly enjoy). Even though the Glorfindel card lets you draw a strategy card after you play it, I have found myself not playing it at all so I don't end up with a "wasted" elite in Rivendell.

All that said, I really like the lesser Minions and the GtW denial option for the SP. I also like a lot of the new event cards that are added.
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birchbeer
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Teamjimby wrote:
There are a lot of things I like about LOME, but a few things keep me from always using it.

1) The games generally last about 50% longer. The FP is able to defend better and the SP is able to corrupt better, so the average game takes a few more turns. 10 to 14 turns is common whereas regular 2nd edition is usually in the 7 to 9 range.

2) It feels more lucky. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels that way, but well over half of my LOME games have been completely unwinnable for one side or the other. It almost has a runaway leader problem where a turn 1 reveal gives the SP an ~80% chance of victory, but poor early hunting can give the FP an ~80% chance of victory. Also, lesser dice can leave after 1 turn or stay for 10 turns and that has a big impact. Rolling an eye with a lesser keeper die not only makes moving the FSP more difficult, but it also costs an action and possibly removes the die.

3) Lorien is basically unconquerable with Galadriel in play. This reduces Shadow military options and also accentuates the Elves small reinforcement pool and reinforcement management (which I don't particularly enjoy). Even though the Glorfindel card lets you draw a strategy card after you play it, I have found myself not playing it at all so I don't end up with a "wasted" elite in Rivendell.

All that said, I really like the lesser Minions and the GtW denial option for the SP. I also like a lot of the new event cards that are added.


I haven't played LOME nearly enough to offer an objective argument one way or the other. I don't think the games I've played were 50 percent longer, but they were definitely longer (not counting the additional teaching time and rule book searches).

However, having played the Collector's Edition with all the Corsairs, Siege Engines, Dunlendings, Galadriel and Ents, etc., I can say I much prefer the streamlined 2nd edition rules. It's cleaner, leaner and also more balanced. I do like the Ents (especially with how weak and slow Rohan is at the start), but the other factions and add-ons I do not miss at all. Siege engines were a downer and corsairs were rarely even bothered with.

This is kind of my feeling with LOME. The addition of more characters, more dice and more rules is fascinating, but also a distraction in some ways. I'm just not sure I feel more was necessarily better. Especially after all the 'fixes' that went into the streamlined 2nd edition.

The best way to do expansions, IMO, is through cards. You can do so much with them with far less risk of 'breaking' the game balance.
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Jamie Y
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Since getting it I can't find myself wanting to play the base game game unless I am teaching a new player the mechanics. I love everything that the expansion adds. I have about 50+ base games played to date with around 15 since using the expansion.

Edit: I note from above posts that I came straight in at 2nd Edition War of the Ring and haven't experienced any other versions.
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kevin long
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I haven't seen it go longer - the same. I did notice as soon as LOME came out that it was determined it must be longer and that has been repeated quite a few times - not necessarily from experience but by parroting what had been said. As far as greater chaos or run away? Some would have an easy time arguing that is no worse
 
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Jim Hansen
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I have definitely experienced longer games in LOME. I think it is mostly because the SP is more inclined to do a corruption strategy, which is always slower than a military rush strategy. In regular 2nd edition the SP usually goes military rush (in my experience), and if they haven't gotten 10 VPs by about turn 7 or 8 they have lost. In LOME, the SP usually waits to bring in Saruman and brings in the hunty WK when possible. This means more actions are being used to harass the FSP (slowing their progress), and fewer actions are used for military. I think the shortest LOME game I have played was 8 rounds, with many in the teens. Fewer military actions combined with extra musters (from keeper dice) often let the FP fortify strongholds before they get put under siege. Other than WR and occasionally HD, it is near impossible to get a stronghold under siege with fewer than 4 or 5 defending units.

The luck/chaos is harder to pin down. From my experience in the tournament so far, 4 of my 5 games have been almost entirely decided by chance. Luckily I won two of those, so I am still alive. By comparison, in the regular tournament, maybe 1 of my 6 games was decided mostly by chance. Maybe it is too small of a sample size, but I have noticed a clear trend in my games thus far.


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Josiah Leis
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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Teamjimby wrote:
There are a lot of things I like about LOME, but a few things keep me from always using it.

1) The games generally last about 50% longer. The FP is able to defend better and the SP is able to corrupt better, so the average game takes a few more turns. 10 to 14 turns is common whereas regular 2nd edition is usually in the 7 to 9 range.

2) It feels more lucky. I can't quite put my finger on why it feels that way, but well over half of my LOME games have been completely unwinnable for one side or the other. It almost has a runaway leader problem where a turn 1 reveal gives the SP an ~80% chance of victory, but poor early hunting can give the FP an ~80% chance of victory. Also, lesser dice can leave after 1 turn or stay for 10 turns and that has a big impact. Rolling an eye with a lesser keeper die not only makes moving the FSP more difficult, but it also costs an action and possibly removes the die.

3) Lorien is basically unconquerable with Galadriel in play. This reduces Shadow military options and also accentuates the Elves small reinforcement pool and reinforcement management (which I don't particularly enjoy). Even though the Glorfindel card lets you draw a strategy card after you play it, I have found myself not playing it at all so I don't end up with a "wasted" elite in Rivendell.

All that said, I really like the lesser Minions and the GtW denial option for the SP. I also like a lot of the new event cards that are added.


Sorry for the thread necro (is 4 months old enough to be considered a "thread necro"?), but I just wanted to add that my opinion mirrors Jim's exactly. I enjoy having LoME to occasionally bust out when I want something a little different to shake up the base game, but I still play the majority of my games with just the base game and leave the expansion out. My reasons are all identical to Jim's.

I'd also like to add that I think the fact that the expansion makes the game longer is absolutely the truth. All my LoME games last for more turns than the average base game, and each turn of LoME takes longer than a turn from the base game due to the extra actions each side has each turn. Thus even a 7 turn LoME game is still longer than a 7 turn base game. When using the online client my shortest game of the base game was 45 minutes, with my average game lasting around 2 hours. Long games would be 3+ hours. The absolute fastest game I have ever played of LoME using the client was over 3 hours, and I have had more than one go over 5.

The greater luck factor is also something I believe is true, but like Jim said I think it is harder to pin down as factual (unlike the increased playtime). May just be the way it "feels" to me, but it seems like the timing of that first FSP reveal is so critical that the entire game swings on it.
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David F
United States
Emeryville
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Luck in games, in measured doses, is the catalyst which enables shocking game-changers that you'll remember and talk about forever.
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Base feels more luck-dependent to me because the FP player is screwed if he can't roll a WotW. In the expansion, he can at least make use of a Muster.
 
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Josiah Leis
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Merino
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I spent 100 GG and all I got was this stupid overtext.....
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selwyth wrote:
Base feels more luck-dependent to me because the FP player is screwed if he can't roll a WotW. In the expansion, he can at least make use of a Muster.


While I get what you are saying there, I believe that in that same situation in the expansion (the Free is unable to roll a WotW to get GtW or Aragorn) that the Free is still screwed. Perhaps not quite as much I grant you, but he is definitely going down if he is sitting on 4 Actions + 1 Lesser Action (which may actually backfire and turn into an Eye) for all or most of the game.
 
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Philip Sokolov
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1e/CE with the original expansion (Twilight of the Third Age) is still the ultimate way to play, IMO. Maybe after they come out with the next expansion, it will be time to upgrade, but in the meantime, I am not eager to sacrifice my ent army!
 
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phils@tbw.net wrote:
1e/CE with the original expansion (Twilight of the Third Age) is still the ultimate way to play, IMO. Maybe after they come out with the next expansion, it will be time to upgrade, but in the meantime, I am not eager to sacrifice my ent army!


Heh.

Q. How do you know someone owns the WotR 1st Edition Collectors' Edition?

A. He's already told you.

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