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HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition» Forums » General

Subject: GZ latest message to Kickstarter backers rss

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Here's the latest message from GZ to the KS backers:

---------------
Dear Backers

Last Friday we were surprised by the pause placed on our kickstarter Project of HQ25. We wrote a communiqué to you, which was also posted on our site heroquestclassic.com. In our letter we tried to communicate to you in the clearest fashion what was happening and as well to share with you all, our petition to kickstarter to have the project reopened. To do all of this publicly was to us the correct way for you as our backers to be informed of the situation and the most correct and transparent way to communicate with you as well, as our backers you have the right to know what was going on with this project.

We have done what you have ask for, we have waited in silence for KS’ answer. It has arrived. KS would prefer to keep the project on hold and wait for us to come to an agreement with third part.

The KS answer can be seen at our site.

KS’ position does not agree with as at all. The situation produced by the pause of the project has been harmful.

We do not feel that our legitimate rights over the Trademark have been protected and above all we do not wish to do business with third part under threats or duress of any sort. As a result we are proceeding to solicit KS to cancel our project on their platform.

Is this the end of HQ25? Of course not! Keep reading!

We accept the all of the respectful critics that has come our way because we learn from these things and if someone thinks differently they are free to express those opinions. What we do not accept is the disinformation y distortions that have been happening during the project's pause on KS in which we have remained silent and waited.

During these past few days our creative design crew has still been working on the development of various components, the same as always, the idea being to not lose any energy with this controversy.

The thirteen on the gallows, as we have fondly started calling the 13 professionals that are implicated in the creation of the project, have as a priority the development of this commemorative game.

We are truly more worried about you, the backers. We want thank you for the messages of support that have been rolling in. The public reaction to the news of a new edition of this classic provided undeniable and sincere joy to many. We will hold onto this as the rout to follow.

After this communiqué is sent out we will proceed to ask KS to cancel the project on their platform. After this is done we will immediately restart and continue the HQ25 project. More info at heroquestclassic.com tomorrow. Therefore the HQ25 project will return to active status. We will move from victims to survivors and conquer as we go.

We understand that KS has a larger public base than any other crowed funding platform today; we understand that moving the project to another site will mean that out backer support will decrease. However we are ready and willing to continue this campaign in a place that will offer us the correct guaranties for our trademark. We would prefer to raise fewer funds and still move forward with and produce it in time for the 25th anniversary.

We await your support and enthusiasm in this renewed crowed funding campaign.

Again, we would like to thank our backers from the bottom of our hearts, please do not regret supporting us. Let us all together get this back on track and make this dream a reality.

Gamezone
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And the (short) KS reply they alluded to can be found here:
http://www.heroquestclassic.com/KS_Carta2.pdf
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Waspinator
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So basically, they're admitting that they can't win the Moon Design dispute.
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Pete Grey
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On a side note that may or may not be related to the re-release, why was Simon Hunt recently added as a designer? At least, I don't recall seeing his name up there before the recent kerfuffle and wasn't sure if he is actually now somehow involved or if it is maybe a mistake.

I looked through a lot of the previous posts and didn't see anything.
 
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Orlando Neto
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TheWaspinator wrote:
So basically, they're admitting that they can't win the Moon Design dispute.
They saying they are not giving easy money. MD RPG has nothing to do with Boardgmae. GZ has the trademark in Spain and MD in US. MD wants the money nad GZ don't want to share just for the name. If MD share some of the work, but it will not happen as responses and e-mails so far.
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Adam Royds
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Hmmmmm. Seems this may have all been just an elaborate form of Advertisement. Think about it. Create drama... gain infamy... Are they legit, or 'thieves and robbers'? Either way they have gotten a lot of attention from it. I know many people will go over to what ever platform they will use to now fund the game.

Interesting...
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Derek Jones
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I can't see anything going wrong with this.
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Orlando Neto
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djnafai wrote:
I can't see anything going wrong with this.
Yep, seens legit. You have my wallet!
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Bruno Galice
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Casus Belli wrote:
We will move from victims to survivors and conquer as we go.
I'm still laughing of this one...
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Casus Belli wrote:
KS’ position does not agree with as at all.
And this statement doesn't make me question the validity of everything. If nothing else has raised a red flag high enough, this one should. Wow.....I hope all backers get the game they want, or even a game in general.
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Bartosz Trzaskowski

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Casus Belli wrote:
And the (short) KS reply they alluded to can be found here:
http://www.heroquestclassic.com/KS_Carta2.pdf
"Hello

Could be posilble an answer, update or reply to this email, please?

This situation is deeply harmful.

Gracias"

I understand that not everyone speaks/writes in perfect English. I rarely do. But, COME ON! WTF? This is an official email message from a serious company?
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that Matt
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Casus Belli wrote:
We await your support and enthusiasm in this renewed crowed funding campaign.
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Rick Vinyard
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TheWaspinator wrote:
So basically, they're admitting that they can't win the Moon Design dispute.
It looks like they filed an application for a US trademark last week on "Heroquest" in the IC28 category "Toys and Sporting Goods."

USPTO wrote:
Word Mark HEROQUEST
Goods and Services IC 028. US 022 023 038 050.
G & S: Equipment sold as a unit for playing board games.
FIRST USE: 20131125.
FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20131125
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 86131779
Filing Date November 29, 2013
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Venable, William Herny Cabell INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES p.o. box 219 port haywood VIRGINIA 23138
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Stafford's trademark registration was in IC16 "Paper goods and Printed matter":
USPTO wrote:
Word Mark HEROQUEST
Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050.
G & S: Role playing game equipment in the nature of game book manuals.
FIRST USE: 20010515.
FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010515
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 85183543
Filing Date November 23, 2010
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition October 25, 2011
Registration Number 4082281
Registration Date January 10, 2012
Owner (REGISTRANT) Stafford, Francis Gregory INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 1050 10th St Arcata CALIFORNIA 95521
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
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Frank Franco
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Anyone who backs this clusterfuck deserves to get ripped. Hard.

(Yes I am a heartless bastard.)
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Anyone who backs this clusterfuck deserves to get ripped. Hard.

(Yes I am a heartless bastard.)
I'm in!
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Donny Behne
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Anyone who backs this clusterfuck deserves to get ripped. Hard.

(Yes I am a heartless bastard.)
I rarely agree with you Skeletor, but this time, I do 100%.
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I believe that GZ is trying to register the mark, to try to make the product to look legitimate in the new crowdfunding they will do, even if the mark is pending approval ("Look! We have a Tm for Heroquest being registered in the USA!").

And that there will be people who will believe such a claim at face value ("How can you say their TM is not good until it gets through the approval process?"), even if they do not stand a chance to actually have it approved.

A personal sidenote and proof of the reliability of this people, if any more is still needed.

Last week I got in contact with Gamezone during the Kickstarter, and they replied to me (as they did to other backers I know of): "Hasbro owns ALL HQ rights. GW was outsourced for the making of the miniatures. SO WE HAVE OUR CONTACTS AND AGREEMENTS WITH HASBRO ITSELF."
So, they explicitly stated in this message they have "agreements" in place with Hasbro, to try to keep backers quiet.

And then yesterday I read in an interview to a Spanish site:
"Si copiáramos exactamente el juego, es decir, si hiciéramos una reimpresión tal cual, sí que hubiéramos pedido permiso explícito de Hasbro. NO ES ESO LO QUE ESTAMOS HACIENDO, estamos realizando una versión conmemorativa. Todo el arte, figuras y componentes son distintos."
Translation: If we were doing a reprint of the original, we would ask permission from Hasbro. This is not what we are doing. we are doing a commemorative (!!!!) edition. All the art, miniatures and components are different)

That, is they say they do not need permission, so they are NOT asking any permission to Hasbro, because they want to change everything.

I got to study enough first-order logic to be able to tell for sure that at least one of the statements above is a lie.

I am curious to see how many people will trust them with their money in the new CF campaign after all of this. But a lot of stories, from Madoff down, prove that there are people out there that like to believe in well-crafted (or badly crafted, in this case...) swindles.

And in the meantime, there is still the page on their website where you can order HQ25 as "available"...
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Diego Méndez
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cybernex wrote:
Last week I got in contact with Gamezone during the Kickstarter, and they replied to me (as they did to other backers I know of): "Hasbro owns ALL HQ rights. GW was outsourced for the making of the miniatures. SO WE HAVE OUR CONTACTS AND AGREEMENTS WITH HASBRO ITSELF."
So, they explicitly stated in this message they have "agreements" in place with Hasbro, to try to keep backers quiet.

And then yesterday I read in an interview to a Spanish site:
"Si copiáramos exactamente el juego, es decir, si hiciéramos una reimpresión tal cual, sí que hubiéramos pedido permiso explícito de Hasbro. NO ES ESO LO QUE ESTAMOS HACIENDO, estamos realizando una versión conmemorativa. Todo el arte, figuras y componentes son distintos."
Translation: If we were doing a reprint of the original, we would ask permission from Hasbro. This is not what we are doing. we are doing a commemorative (!!!!) edition. All the art, miniatures and components are different)

That, is they say they do not need permission, so they are NOT asking any permission to Hasbro, because they want to change everything.

I got to study enough first-order logic to be able to tell for sure that at least one of the statements above is a lie.
To be honest, Hasbro doesn't have all the rights to HeroQuest. The situation is far more complex, but that's a good simplification if you have to explain it in two sentences. It's possible that the only way to do HeroQuest 25th legally may be to have an *implicit*, oral/email agreement with Hasbro that they won't sue GZ if Hasbro distributes it in Spain and possibly elsewhere, while making it a legally different game.
 
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Gamezone wrote:
We will hold onto this as the rout to follow.
Providing entertainment with every new message... laugh
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felipechadid wrote:


To be honest, Hasbro doesn't have all the rights to HeroQuest. The situation is far more complex, but that's a good simplification if you have to explain it in two sentences. It's possible that the only way to do HeroQuest 25th legally may be to have an *implicit*, oral/email agreement with Hasbro that they won't sue GZ if Hasbro distributes it in Spain and possibly elsewhere, while making it a legally different game.
Diego, I know that the situation is "more complex". But as a potential backer of the project, I was writing them to ask if their product was authorized by Hasbro.

Exactly, this is what I wrote:

Dear Sirs,

I am concerned that your project does not make proper use of Intellectual Property rights of the creators and publishers of this game.

Can you please confirm in an EXPLICIT way if you have been licensed the rights to produce "Heroquest" from the original publisher MB/Hasbro and/or from the designer of the game, Mr. Stephen Baker?

Else what is the source of your rights to reprint this game?


And in reply to this they said it was as they "had an agreement with Hasbro".
A chat with Hasbro over the phone (assuming they had it) might be the "contact" they mention, but not an "agreement".
You may call it "good simplification", but it's not what I call it. Especially when the question was "are you doing this under an agreement with Hasbro" and the reply essentially was "yes".

The "honest" reply should have been like the one they gave in an intervew -" we do not have a permission, because we think we don't need it".

My conclusion, is that GZ did not have any problem lying to me (and other backers) during the Kickstarter, to protect their interest. And I don't see a reason why this kind of shady behavior should become different in the future.

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John "Omega" Williams
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This is what I keep meaning by the contradictions GameZone repeatedly performs damaging their credibility.

We did this
No-no! We did that!
Wait! Sorry! We did these.
Hold it! Think it was really those.
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col_w
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Gamezone wrote:
We will move from victims to survivors and conquer as we go.
Poll
Are Gamezone victims?
Yes
No
      248 answers
Poll created by col_w
 
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felipechadid wrote:
It's possible that the only way to do HeroQuest 25th legally may be to have an *implicit*, oral/email agreement with Hasbro that they won't sue GZ if Hasbro distributes it in Spain and possibly elsewhere, while making it a legally different game.
No way.

Quote:
(a) No use of Hasbro's Intellectual Property or products is authorised unless you have received a letter from Hasbro authorising the use and have signed and returned this 'consent letter' agreeing to the terms of use.
Source: Hasbro's site.

http://www.hasbro.com/en_gb/corporate/legal/
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John "Omega" Williams
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Needs an entry for Plasma Beings told us to...
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